Posted February 13, 2013
I'm specifically not trying to convince you about Aquinas, I simply stated that I think he put forward something that... well to me it's childishly silly. You clearly don't think so and you seem to want to debate Aquinas with me, others have made any points I could make far better. I assume you're acquainted with said arguments and you don't "buy into them" anymore than I buy into Aquinas. For that reason debating Aquinas with you seems useless. You even equate me dismissing his arguments as "blind".
Soyeong: It sounds to me like you're not diverting from the usual pattern of people being more concerned with convincing me that Aquinas was wrong than understanding what he said. It's rather unfortunate that people are so quick to blindly dismiss him because many of the blunders of modern philosophy exist primarily because we have gotten away from final causality.
That's fine if it's your opinion, I just don't agree and I find debating certain topics with people of a certain mindset to be useless. Don't equate that as me saying you're a "bad" person or something, I'm just not interested in debating religious philosophy with you. I can show you 10 pictures of mutilated, hacked apart, dead children for every justification of god. I think the god people posit is a cunt. If that dude's real, to me he's worse than a war criminal. That's my opinion, I don't expect anyone to particularly share it, but please don't insult me that I don't have my reasons for dismissing Aquinas.
"Jesus will send you to hell for many things.... BUT he loves you!!!" is more insightful to me than thousands of (again to me) tortured, illogical treatises trying to justify it all. It's fine if you don't agree, but Carlin had a lot of great points, and the beauty of insight is often that one can say better in a few words that which takes most people a book. I have actually read the bible in multiple languages, I've studied gnostic religions and specifically the Gospel of John. I've even attended seminary instruction (bet that would surprise most people who know me). So I would say I've read The Bible and understand it far better than your average Christian and Carlin's points are some of the biggest unanswered criticisms of Christianity (with the exception of a excruciatingly few who are working with a somewhat "fixed" and patched up version). Christians aren't obligated to answer said criticisms if they don't wish to, but I find it a bit silly when they stick their fingers in their ears and act like everyone else should just see their side of things when they haven't bothered with any of the things most of us take issue with.
As for the hell thing, go back and check, Jesus introduced the concept of hell, find a hell in the old testament that normal people could go to, you can't. Job's friends recommended he curse god and die as a way to end his suffering. According to Jesus that would send a devout man like Job straight to the hot-spot. But in the Old Testament death was an end to suffering.
To be fair, I do think The Bible contains some wisdom, but no more so than something like Aesop's Fables.
Sorry, not trying to be an ass, just explaining why further debate between us on what you believe to be the merits of Aquinas' writing is useless. I get your point, we simply have a very different world view.