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SirPrimalform: Ahh, well done team Hitler! Joe told me his dirty secret on Saturday so I've been rooting for him (and considering bringing a cattle prod into the thread to speed the game up).
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joppo: You should have joined me in the QT as well, mate
Nahhh, I find forum SH really dull. I wasn't actually following the game, I just knew Joe was Hitler.
One problem with topping in a forum game is that it would take an extremely long time with us having to wait for a nomination and the no votes for 3 governments in a row. It's part of the reasons why I wasn't too eager to go for it.

Maybe we should allow for a "Top next card" bulk vote. So if anyone proposes it, then besides the usual vote for the next government you also vote for topping next policy. If the majority vote for it, then next 3 (or 2 if one government was already voted down) governments automatically get voted down and next policy topped.
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GameRager: (Also yeah, I almost blew it by popping the champagne early.....almost cost us the game....I wonder how many noticed that accidental scum tell? o.0)
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JoeSapphire: hahahahaha it was my favourite part of the game. I was like 'is no-one seeing this??' :D
Yep. It also gave me pause. "Damn, Rager, you were playing so well and now this!?"

And a bit later: "WTF? No one noticed?"
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JoeSapphire: hahahahaha it was my favourite part of the game. I was like 'is no-one seeing this??' :D
was sweating bullets at that point, tbh. o.0 :D
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Lifthrasil: Yep. It also gave me pause. "Damn, Rager, you were playing so well and now this!?"

And a bit later: "WTF? No one noticed?"
I know.....my bad......it sadly comes with how I read/reply to posts sometimes. I gotta be more careful next time(no matter what side i'm on), I think. :)
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Now for my notes:

(Some notes/musings I made on various posts & the game/it's players, along with some breadcrumbs/etc I dropped as I played)

Posts of note:
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Post 79 by ZFR- (On picking hitler as chancellor) - If anyone wonders why I picked rwarehall it was random BUT from the liberals only....I didn't want to pick another fascist or hitler as such to avoid putting suspicion on another team mate on the off chance I played poorly and aroused suspicion.

Post 87 by Pooka - I find it funny that Joe didn't pick up on the few crumbs I placed before this(One being the bolded bit from me about a tub of cool whip, a nod to family guy and that scene with stewie and meg[where he emphasizes the H sound on that and other words])

Post 96 by me - More breadcrumbing to Joe that I knew who he was with the overuse of the letter H near the end.

Post 108 - I found it funny I had done "good" so far in evading suspicion and gotten all yes votes but scene....and while I commend him for sticking to his guns and being the only one smart enough to possibly ferret me out(at the time I wrote this bit) among liberals, I also kinda find it funny that he only seemingly did so due to me not wanting to play meta/pick a chancellor from the "right" set of people.

First policy pass by me: I had a brainfart when picking and nearly made myself look very suspicious by taking the only liberal card from the cards given and discarding it....thankfully I caught myself in time and tossed a fascist card instead.

Post 131 - Another breadcrumb with a BIG H in WHO, and while posting to Lift....this was done by me while hoping Joe would catch on if he hadn't before.

Posts 149 and 154 - I LOVED Pooka's writeup/flavor here and also RFG's intro as well...I also liked being able to play with RFG again(even if we DID get stuck on opposing sides this time). :)

Post 234 by Scene - Seeing him/you pick Joe as a possible fascist made me a little tense.

(Also the last paragraph of that post: I now realize I should've picked Lift Or Joe and handed them a liberal card to pass, but eh....what's done is done I guess)

Policy pick #1 by me: I picked liberal out of the two cards handed me to avoid being seen as fascist...though I likely should've passed the fascist policy and thrown shade on myself a bit to help fascists along.

Post 239 by Pooka - I hoped I would get picked as Chancellor again at this point(dunno if it was possible as as of me writing this I was/am not fully versed in the more complex game details) or Joe even, so we could slip through a fascist policy(even if it meant we had to throw one of us under the bus a bit/shade them a bit to do so).

Post 261 by ZFR - I was worried when ZFR scoped out Joe/Lift & possibly me as well, but happy he also suspected a few others to varying degrees.

Post 416 + 442 by Lift - These seemed like breadcrumbs to me or advice, and I took them as such/to heart, but I played as I did to have fun.....sorry about thay if it seemed bad play. :)

2nd policy pass by me: I discarded one L card. Otherwise the game would've been over and my side would've lost. Sorry for extending the game a bit longer, everyone(mostly liberals...I am guessing other fascists also wanted to win and didn't mind my prolonging the game :)).

I also muddled over what to say after being allowed to speak....I picked saying I got 3 F cards to avoid tipping off Rwarehall if I said I sent 1 of each card as he is a very good player(observant/analytical/etc) it seems.

Post 488 by Micro: A nice beefy post, and twas nice to see such a post I could reply to by you/Micro.

The bit about sweating bullets by us F players: I dunno about the others but it's how I felt after passing that F policy to keep the game going & then people suggesting I be investigated.

Post 537 and 538 by Joe and Me - I was guessing this was Joe trying to feel out for the other fascist on the team and looking to see what my reply was. I responded with a bit of breadcrumbing....hopefully it was noticed/picked up on. :)

Post 593 by me - I picked me and Joe as players NOT to pick as I hoped either Joe would be picked and the game would be won, or I would be picked and I could pass another F policy...hopefully if I got handed two F cards, but also even if I got an L and had to drop it and expose myself in the process.

I also picked scene to add a Liberal into the mix to cast some shade and also avoid lumping all fascists by themselves(if that makes sense).

Post 608 - I had to laugh at the fact that scene's meta play style caused him to only be able to view certain actions/players a certain way given his style of play.....not very flexible or desirable Liberal play, imo.

Though he DID find out(at that point) 2 of the 3 fascists in play, so maybe there is a tiny bit of merit in it.

Post 613+614 - I almost let it slip due to being excited, thinking we'd won due to Joe being nominated...then I figured he'd still need to be elected, so I tried to backtrack and asked for a bump to post more to hide my jumping the gun.

@ Lift/Joe: I DO hope my jumping the gun on Post 614 accidentally(and also losing the game if that happened) didn't make you guys wanna thrash me soundly for my mistake. :)

Post 623 by ZFR: By this point I hoped we had ZFR on board for a YES vote, and knew us 3 fascists would vote yes.....I was hoping we could get 1 more yes vote to win....I was SO on pins and needles at this point.

Post 688 by Lift - I know lift/you was/were trying to make us look less suspect, but suggesting to ZFR and everyone that we change votes and skip from a possible win was a very risky move, imo.....if they accepted and everyone did that then we'd have lost.
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Musings:
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Sorry if I come off as overly rude to anyone with this bit: I try to respect everyone's choices as muchy as possible, but I found the whole "I think we should play meta" thing being pushed to be pointless after a certain point, and on the other hand some people's *reaction* to it being pushed/talked about(Not just by scene) to be a bit more than necessary.....imo a simple "We're not playing meta" before moving on would've suffiiced and I was sad to see some leave over it.
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Well that's about it.

Oh yeah @Joppo: If you didn't see it yet, I replied to you in the observer thread.

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Post edited January 28, 2020 by GameRager
(From the linked point until 2:12)
Post edited January 28, 2020 by GameRager
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GoodFollow: Secret Hitler 3??? What ? :)
Sorry, I'm newbie and don't understand all the things you're talking about, could you explain me?
We are starting a new game of forum mafia! Come join us now or watch at https://www.gog.com/forum/general/looking_for_players_for_a_forum_deduction_game/page1
I'm just saying I'll respond to a couple posts! Eventually. I feel a little sleepy but will do it!
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joppo: As someone who didn't have a horse in this race, you can be sure I'm impartial when I say I have to endorse Lift's post-game recommendations to you. You did have a pretty good instinct and that was your best quality to help your team.However, your flawed use of statistics undermine your arguments. If that's not your strong suit just leave them out or it will work against you. You can see how both ZFR and RW who now you're sure were also liberals kept pointing flaws in your arguments.
I also stand by Lift's recommendations. Your instinct was amazing, scene. You could have convinced the whole table to drop the Joe idea, had you not doubled down on the statistics angle. People were willing to listen to you and even implement your ideas in practice (the less hands on deck strategy is yours after all!) but you failed to click with them when they most needed you.


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JoeSapphire: hahahahaha it was my favourite part of the game. I was like 'is no-one seeing this??' :D
I had the feeling afterwards that if I came an hour or two later with the "VOTE!" post, GR wouldn't have bothered to explain his way out. What I'm more surprised about is that nobody questioned him about the champagne or about his reasoning for it.


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Lifthrasil: Yep. It also gave me pause. "Damn, Rager, you were playing so well and now this!?"

And a bit later: "WTF? No one noticed?"
Heh. GR was absolutely brilliant this game. Is that why nobody spotted it? Not even Microfish called it out, and he's the kind of person I'd expect him to spot it and go "hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, this is super fishy."


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ZFR: Maybe we should allow for a "Top next card" bulk vote. So if anyone proposes it, then besides the usual vote for the next government you also vote for topping next policy. If the majority vote for it, then next 3 (or 2 if one government was already voted down) governments automatically get voted down and next policy topped.
That was...sorta what I added to the rules mid-game. You could vote for the current government and up to two future governments with a few catches, and I made two posts about it so people knew it was a thing they could do, in anticipation of endless rejected governments.


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joppo: Oh right, after a while I realized that RFG should probably be liberal because he was too quiet to be from a team that thrives in chaos and he couldn't be hitler or he would be posting enough to raise his chances to enter government.
That is something I noticed during a couple games, going all the way back to the previous SH game here. Some liberals are quiet. Fascists are usually loud. Now that doesn't mean that fascists are always loud and liberals are always quiet, I've seen a quiet fascist here and there, but usually the quiet people are liberals who go along with the flow rather than challenge or question it.


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supplementscene: Well done fascists. The thing I will note is the game was weighted slightly unfairly to the fascists. With 8 player I think you need to start with 1 fascist policy down or increase the number of F cards in the deck to balance for the numerical disadvantage.
I forgot about the balancing mechanic entirely, and it didn't help that my script didn't ask me for it by default. I'm thinking of adding the choice to go with balancing into the script, but that would involve reading the source code and...uhh, untangling the mess I've coded. No matter what I do, the code is always janky to look at. I've no idea why.


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joppo: You definitely hid your mod knowledge pretty well. Even if I proposed a theory and later a very opposing theory they were both discussed as viable so I could never discern one as closer to the truth than the other. It must be hard to make yourself properly analyze scenarios that are based on something you know isn't true.
Heh. I always thought of all conflicting theories as valid simply because I pretended to be a clueless liberal or observer rather than THE mod of the game who knows more than the fascists will. I think this would be very helpful in playing as scum, but it would need refining in-game because making theories as an observer is just, it's lax, but as a player you're always suspected of having ulterior motives and threatened with votes. Still, it was fun imagining these "100% will never happen" scenarios and playing them out.


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GameRager: Tbh i'm shocked you didn't divine Lift's obviously fascist leanings given his various posts near the end trying to act as non fascist as possible. ;)
I have noted in the text file that Lift's pushing of a GR investigation to Joe is basically Lift hoping that Joe finds one of his fascist buddies, and then hope that Joe connects the dots back to Lift. It's this kind of thing that makes me want to play as Hitler in a serious game (I've never done that).


More later!
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PookaMustard: I'm just saying I'll respond to a couple posts! Eventually. I feel a little sleepy but will do it!
(Me at 2:44 btw, lol...so cute)
Post edited January 29, 2020 by GameRager
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PookaMustard: I had the feeling afterwards that if I came an hour or two later with the "VOTE!" post, GR wouldn't have bothered to explain his way out. What I'm more surprised about is that nobody questioned him about the champagne or about his reasoning for it.
Oh, I had alarm bells ringing in my head and KNEW my mistake within minutes....I even posted for a bump in the admin thread because of that flub.....luckily though, you made a post and I could make one of mine to try and smooth things over. :)

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PookaMustard: Heh. GR was absolutely brilliant this game. Is that why nobody spotted it? Not even Microfish called it out, and he's the kind of person I'd expect him to spot it and go "hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, this is super fishy."
Heh, you overly flatter me, I think. I p;ayed around the same I did in the mafia games....I think it has/had to do with the fact that SH games are geared differently(how to play and win) compared to previous games and I was able to capitalize upon that.

That and the fact I was on fascist side and knew who all the liberals were, so all I had to do was hide in plain sight and not have to puzzle out who the fascists were or try to make each vote actually count.

It was also a stroke of luck lift suggested joe to investigate me and joe did....all of that and scene's suspicious play style helped us all "come together as a team", I think, and pull off a win.

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PookaMustard: I have noted in the text file that Lift's pushing of a GR investigation to Joe is basically Lift hoping that Joe finds one of his fascist buddies, and then hope that Joe connects the dots back to Lift. It's this kind of thing that makes me want to play as Hitler in a serious game (I've never done that).
I still wonder when it was that joe figures or guessed first that either of us might be fascists....was it when lift suggested to investigate me,or did Joe have an inkling before then...makes me wonder, it does. o.0
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PookaMustard: I forgot about the balancing mechanic entirely, and it didn't help that my script didn't ask me for it by default. I'm thinking of adding the choice to go with balancing into the script, but that would involve reading the source code and...uhh, untangling the mess I've coded. No matter what I do, the code is always janky to look at. I've no idea why.
Probably for the best...as Scene is wrong yet again...

The online Secret Hitler has no balancing changes for 8 players.
6 players - they start with a Fascist policy enacted
7 players - 1 fewer Fascist policy in the deck
9 players - 2 fewer Fascist policies in the deck.

8 players is considered balanced and their win rate is 53% Liberal/47% Fascist.
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RWarehall: Probably for the best...as Scene is wrong yet again...
For a bit of fun/a good laugh(and you reminded me of this "scene"): You/Us=The Host of the "game"
Scene=Billy Madison

(The above is just meant as harmless fun....just a head's up)
Reminding myself to post some of the stuff here. Mainly:

- responses to GameRager
- Flavor PMs, such as role PMs
- other thoughts when making the game (maybe)

What else...maybe the tool I used to make the game, and praising what needs to be praised and criticizing what needs to be criticized. Not sure what else, but I do plan to be as thorough as possible to cover everything.
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PookaMustard: Reminding myself to post some of the stuff here. Mainly:

- responses to GameRager
- Flavor PMs, such as role PMs
- other thoughts when making the game (maybe)

What else...maybe the tool I used to make the game, and praising what needs to be praised and criticizing what needs to be criticized. Not sure what else, but I do plan to be as thorough as possible to cover everything.
Sounds good.....will be staying tuned for that. :)

(Also I wonder if any player read my notes....I went to so much trouble to take and then post them, after all. o.0)
Post edited February 04, 2020 by GameRager
Role PMs!

Before we begin, it's worth noting that each faction had the same victory conditions and role signal. Here they are:
LIBERAL:
YOU ARE A LIBERAL.

You win if one of the following happens:
1) Five Liberal policies are enacted.
2) Hitler is executed.

You lose if:
1) Hitler is elected as Chancellor after three Fascist policies have been enacted.
2) Six Fascist policies are enacted.
HITLER:
YOU ARE HITLER. You don't know who your fellow fascists are.

You win if one of the following happens:
1) You are elected as Chancellor after three Fascist policies have been enacted.
2) Six Fascist policies are enacted.

You lose if:
1) Five Liberal policies are enacted.
2) You are executed.
FASCIST:
YOU ARE A FASCIST. Your fellow Fascist is (the other fascist), and Hitler is JoeSapphire.

You win if one of the following happens:
1) Hitler is elected as Chancellor after three Fascist policies have been enacted.
2) Six Fascist policies are enacted.

You lose if:
1) Five Liberal policies are enacted.
2) Hitler is executed.
TRIVIA: Lift's PM has "(yes, again)" after "YOU ARE A FASCIST."

On to the players...

ZFR:
Welcome to the test screenings, Zenefredi! You really don't like both the Puzzlemaster and Grimsby, yet here you are working for them despite all the wrongs they have done. You really don't understand what a great magician like you would do in their newest gig, but you agreed to partake in whatever they planned for you. After all, why do they need a magician? They've got CGI and special effects. But you are certain about a couple of things: 1) you are thankful for the opportunity to show your magic on the big screen again, 2) something is wrong about this movie's production, heck, the only one you trust not to screw up is yourself.
Joe:
Welcome to the test screenings, Captain Sapphire! After so many years of being forgotten and neglected, you will rise again! Soon, you will have more than just the fans who discover your Movie and the Musical only through piracy websites! But there is still a problem. You don't know who you're really working with. You know that Grimsby wants you to show how Puzzlemaster's ideas are just horrible. But the letter you got never told you about your colleagues, or even if you have any. Your only guess is that the letter was rushed, judging by how the handwriting was alright up until the second half where it just looked terrible.

You do know one thing though. You've seen other heroes live for practically forever. You read what went wrong for many heroes, yourself included. You know how to get big on the screen again. But you need to impress the judges first.
RedFireGaming:
Welcome to the test screenings, Xtreme Fire! Your low budget requirements and your willingness to allow Big Data to collect all your data has paid off in the end, for you have been hired a replacement actor for a desperate studio. You have no idea what's going on there. There's a giant man who you vaguely recall was called "Porka" or something, there's these two weirdos, and there's that robot woman. Oh, and a whole bunch of actors who either forgot about the Xtreme Era or never lived it. But you did deduct from the grand total of five seconds you've seen them that some are up to no good. You are a cheesy supervillain after all, and that's the same vibe you got from them.
GameRager:
Welcome to the test screenings, Garry Allard! You had a lot of trouble doing collabs with superheroes recently. It's been what, three years since your last one? It doesn't help that your latest feature wasn't a massive success and was immediately overshadowed by this super popular crossover of superheroes. You never understood the appeal, especially when half the characters that everyone cared about die, but that's where you carve your audience. You know you've been there since the beginning of time. Grimsby knows this too, and so he enlisted you with Liftin' Rasil to show that buffoon Puzzlemaster that his ideas are horrible. Grimsby would also really love for you to get Captain Sapphire hot, but you're still unsure why.
supplementscene:
Welcome to the test screenings, Supple Scene! You are still awesome, handsome, and amazing. And whoever wrote you to star in this film is awesome, handsome and amazing just as well. Well, except Puzzlemaster, that guy should be fired at the first opportunity, but with Grimsby as the director, you trust him not to mess it up like Puzzlemaster did before. This time, you brought the studio's letter with you so you can reread it when you're sober. When you do get around to rereading, you notice that you weren't contacted by three fans or whatever, like last time. You wondered if you were on your own now, or they really messed up. Oh well, you can still do well yourself, right?
Microfish:
Welcome to the test screenings, Dawn Perry! Just like every movie you starred in, you will give it your best no matter what happens, even with everything you know about the Puzzlemaster's disastrous last gig. That is what made you, μFist, a popular choice for support characters. Despite this, you had a feeling of uneasiness. Was it because of the cast being strange as heck, or was it because you were uncertain about the Puzzlemaster? But no, those were just distractions. For you, acting was the point. You do only what you're told to do. That's how you got popular.
RWarehall:
Welcome to the test screenings, Darth Roberts! You weren't all that excited about this movie, but what's the loss? You've got fans who appreciate your acting, and they will eat up anything that stars you, so long as you keep what makes you special: the excellent serious roles. But there was a problem. You see, half the cast was made of...clowns? They're mostly superheroes who are past their prime, the vaudeville old dude, and a magician. The only choice who didn't make you go "what the hell?" is Dawn, understandably because he is a decent actor. But above all, you can feel it: this mess is either Grimsby's or Puzzlemaster's doing. Or both. Whatever the case, this film is going to fail unless you figure out what's the big idea.
Lifthrasil:
Welcome to the test screenings, Liftin' Rasil! You've been through this before, and you still haven't gotten over what Puzzlemaster did last time. But you wish the mess ended here. The creeps over at 7-sama are really on to you, suspecting there is no "Raisin' Hell Band." Your shine is waning as other people emerge to take on your style of music. Thankfully enough, Grimsby contacted you to act for his gig, maybe then you'll rise again to prominence and crush those "competitors." And Puzzlemaster too, he deserves it too. You just need to work with The Shadow to get Captain Sapphire trending. You don't know why Captain Sapphire, but you trusted Grimsby's judgment more than Puzzlemaster's horrid visions.