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Pretty deadly little thing.

Captain, I have some new information regarding "The Aristocrats". No, they're still laying low after their last heist, so low that we haven't seen Don or Freddie since the meeting with "The Boss". Someone might've hid them underground but we won't know for sure just now. Anyway, there's a new girl that was seen with Rick Fermione. She from outta town, don know exactly where. Seems a member of the borguise. It's bourgeoisie? Don't know sir, some fancy stuff I don't get--pearls, caviars, and champagnes, sir. Yes, one of my boys is following her. Yes, I know this is very delicate matter. Oh, the mayor... no, of course, no, I mean I'll talk to... Yes sir. No one seen. The report, yes. The last thing, sir--and this is a little bit unexpected--it looks like "The Aristocrats" are planning to move to a new district, any moment now. Can't tell for sure, but my bet is Connecticut Ave. We'll see. Will do, sir. Goodbye.

Omerta: City of Gangsters, an organized crime simulation you have been playing for the last couple of weeks just got bigger with The Con Artist DLC. There's a new henchman to recruit, new weapon, and a new district up for grabs. Experience "the greatest con of all time" in this action-packed expansion for only $4.99 on GOG.com.

Requires the base game Omerta: City of Gangsters on GOG in order to play.
All the negative hype, hate... of confused people.

What is DLC, did you forgot?

Expansion pack is DLC, but not every DLC is expansion pack.

DLC in it's basic sense is addon, additional downloadable, optional content. Not part of the game but something that makes complete game more into additional stuff.

Modern strategy of the games is calculated so the game is made for future DLCs and sequels in making. With all addons that adds to complete, basic game additional content or expand it with new game modes, units, items, campaign or stuff. It can be done in hard way (patch that changes game behavior along with new stuff) or easy way (addon content that game recognizes upon loading). There's also possible case with cut beta content (kind of director's cut, making of, debug things) like for example DNF. I see you bitchin about locked content on CD... So? What did you buy? Entire game files along with CD/DVD/BD? NO. You aren't buying IP. You don't own other version of the game unless is stated otherwise. You get basic, complete as it is version, like it was made to be complete, basic version. Whatever it's the unlocker, DLC, locked stuff on disc - this is not part of complete game - this is something that was made to be unlocked/expanded/added to basic/standard/normal complete game. So stop whining and crying about how DLC are evil. You are the one that decide or not to expand complete normal/basic/standard version of the game with additional content or made for that game.
Post edited March 10, 2013 by HenitoKisou
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Kristian: Ignore my use of the word "support" they won't have to do that at all.
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Gersen: Actually they do, they cannot just say : "we sell Linux version of some of our games, but if you buy them then you are on your own we won't offer any support for them", if (when?) they start selling Linux version of games they will have to offer some sort of support.

Yes TET's argument can be used for anything, from Linux version to even Android or iOS versions, but you have to take into account the "context" (for the lack of a better word); adding DLC only requires minimum "investments" from their part (as it's handled like any other game) while adding Linux version of games(or any other new OSes) will/would be something a lot more costly.
(Emphasis mine)

No they don't have to do any such thing. They can easily just provide a Linux client installer as an unsupported extra just as several developers and publishers have already done. Take Prey for example. There is no special Linux version, you buy the regular Windows version and then download the Linux installer from icculus.org, just like with many other games. GOG can easily do the same and the argument for incomplete version applies to that. Why can Ryan Gordon and the publishers and developers he works with do that while GOG can't? Can you point me to the law barring GOG from doing that while not barring Ryan Gordon and co?

"Yes TET's argument can be used for anything, from Linux version to even Android or iOS versions"

No it can't. Steam doesn't offer iOS or Android versions of any games. They DO offer Omerta DLC and The Book Of Unwritten Tales for Linux. So the argument that to stay competitive with Steam and other DD services they have to offer DLC also applies for Linux versions but NOT for iOS or Android versions. Since other DD services don't offer that.
while adding Linux version of games(or any other new OSes) will/would be something a lot more costly.
No it wouldn't be. The bandwith costs are exactly the same, as I said it is all just bits and bytes and the costs are the same no matter what those bits and bytes represent. It is just a matter of GOG raising the bar or what is required for pro-Linux arguments and lowering the bar/standard for anti-Linux arguments(See TET's FreeBSD gaffe for example).
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Kristian: *snip*
Why yes, sir, we sell that product.

...

Oh, you're having problems with my product? That sucks.



edit: oi vey, this post makes it 600.
Post edited March 10, 2013 by ShaolinsKunk
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Kristian: *snip*
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ShaolinsKunk: Why yes, sir, we sell that product.

...

Oh, you're having problems with my product? That sucks.
Well they already provide atleast one tech demo as a(presumably unsupported) extra: http://www.gog.com/gamecard/divine_divinity and as I said Ryan Gordon/Icculus.org already does what I am suggesting GOG do for Linux versions of some games. So that argument doesn't work. The problem is that you are erroneously assuming my suggestion would involve them selling a Linux version as such.

My proposition would only involve selling Windows(and Mac) versions of games and providing Linux binaries/clients/installers as unsupported extras.

Just as they provide manuals, wallpapers, art work, making of videos and the like as extras now and TET's "otherwise we would have an inferior" product argument supports what I am suggesting. Since in this case Steam and others(Desura for instance) are providing something that GOG isn't. Just as would have been the case if they didn't offer the Omerta DLC, which is what TET was arguing for.

His argument applies equally to Linux versions wheter you like it or not. It is incosistent to provide DLC based on that argument and not provide Linux versions wheter you like it not. The argument cuts both ways.
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ShaolinsKunk: Why yes, sir, we sell that product.

...

Oh, you're having problems with my product? That sucks.
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Kristian: Well they already provide atleast one tech demo as a(presumably unsupported) extra: http://www.gog.com/gamecard/divine_divinity and as I said Ryan Gordon/Icculus.org already does what I am suggesting GOG do for Linux versions of some games. So that argument doesn't work. The problem is that you are erroneously assuming my suggestion would involve them selling a Linux version as such.

My proposition would only involve selling Windows(and Mac) versions of games and providing Linux binaries/clients/installers as unsupported extras.

Just as they provide manuals, wallpapers, art work, making of videos and the like as extras now and TET's "otherwise we would have an inferior" product argument supports what I am suggesting. Since in this case Steam and others(Desura for instance) are providing something that GOG isn't. Just as would have been the case if they didn't offer the Omerta DLC, which is what TET was arguing for.

His argument applies equally to Linux versions wheter you like it or not. It is incosistent to provide DLC based on that argument and not provide Linux versions wheter you like it not. The argument cuts both ways.
Linux versions are a specialty case. Many users who buy from here do not use Linux, and I can understand why they wouldn't go that particular route.
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Kristian: snip
So maybe... just maybe... you should create a topic about Linux versions (or lack of) on GOG and whine about it there, and not whine about DLCs because there are no Linux versions of the games? (wait, what?)
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Kristian: GOG has already chosen to release inferior products. The Book Of Unwritten Tales for example has a Linux version that you can get on Steam. But if you buy the game from GOG then you don't get that Linux version. So your argument is equally applicable for GOG releasing Linux versions. I agree with your argument for both cases. Others may disagree for both cases. But so far GOG has chosen to be inconsistent and only apply your argument for DLC. I hope that will change.
I know GOG do not support Linux currently, but Linux does support Windows.
Just to make sure I would be right I have downloaded the Windows version of BoUT and installed it on a massivly below speck machine (next to no graphics or RAM) and it is running as well as you can expect, perfectly playable, thanks to installing it with WINE.
Also Linux support and DLC are nothing alike. The same team can upload a DLC like any other game. You need employees who know Linux and a variation of flavours to offer support to the Linux community. I alone run Win XP, Win7, Ubuntu and Mint on three machines.

The thing to remember with Linux is it is a life choice. We choose to use Linux, and there is support for almost anything Linux online. In fact there are members on the GOG community who can answer and help you if you look, as there are many here using Linux in some form.
I do not see why you are whining that GOG do not support Linux, it will come in time, but there must first be the community to play the games and you can thank Valve for that coming to pass.(Ironicly)
Yet Windows is still the defacto for gaming and that makes it easy to transfer over into Linux with WINE. It takes a bit of fiddling sometimes but the trade off is I can play games on a hugly under powered machine (that would never have played BoUT in Windows) and still get a half decent game play out of them, something Windows can never do.
(My main gaming system is still a Win for compatability and ease of play)
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Kristian: snip
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keeveek: So maybe... just maybe... you should create a topic about Linux versions (or lack of) on GOG and whine about it there, and not whine about DLCs because there are no Linux versions of the games? (wait, what?)
I promised I'd shut my mouth but I just cannot ignore the fact you are barging in on an argument without reading the antecedent yet again
keeveek, I have stated more than once in this thread that I support GOG's decision regarding DLC. How then can be whining about DLC?

011284mm, I already dealt with the support thing. They don't need to "support" anything at all. They just need to upload some files that others have created for them already. Just like Ryan Gordon does on behalf of several of his publisher/developer clients and just like GOG themselves did with the tech demo they ship as an extra for Divine Divinity.
Post edited March 10, 2013 by Kristian
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Kristian: keeveek, I have stated more than once in this thread that I support GOG's decision regarding DLC. How then can be whining about DLC?
Maybe I haven't stated myself clear, sorry. What I don't understand is what DLCs have to do (and especially Omerta DLC) with Linux versions of the games?

PS. I'm pretty sure they are not closed on this, and sooner or later, we will see Linux versions of games as well.
Post edited March 10, 2013 by keeveek
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Kristian: keeveek, I have stated more than once in this thread that I support GOG's decision regarding DLC. How then can be whining about DLC?
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keeveek: Maybe I haven't stated myself clear, sorry. What I don't understand is what DLCs have to do (and especially Omerta DLC) with Linux versions of the games?

PS. I'm pretty sure they are not closed on this, and sooner or later, we will see Linux versions of games as well.
TET(and regular GOG.com users before him) was arguing that they had to add the Omerta DLC because otherwise their version of Omerta would be inferior to those of other DD services. By the same token they should add the Linux version of say The Book of Unwritten Tales because Steam carries it. As is when you get The Book of Unwritten Tales from GOG you get an inferior version to the one on Steam.
PS. I'm pretty sure they are not closed on this, and sooner or later, we will see Linux versions of games as well.
Company officials being under the mistaken impression that FreeBSD is a Linux distro doesn't bode well for the basis of their Linux related decisions. The facts that they are so badly misinformed about Linux makes me take the opposite stance of you and be very certain that they won't provide Linux versions ever.
Post edited March 10, 2013 by Kristian
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Kristian: TET(and regular GOG.com users before him) was arguing that they had to add the Omerta DLC because otherwise their version of Omerta would be inferior to those of other DD services. By the same token they should add the Linux version of say The Book of Unwritten Tales because Steam carries it. As is when you get The Book of Unwritten Tales from GOG you get an inferior version to the one on Steam.
Yes. And they do sell the inferior version of this game. But does that mean if they do sell inferior version of Book of Unwritten tales, they should also sell inferior versions of games without DLCs, or what?

If you want to complaing about lack of Linux version of said game, you are barking at the wrong tree... LEt's just hope they will announce Linux support on their next conference.
Has GOG given up on this strategy to sell games at a good price to value ratio? The differences to the competitors got a bit smaller today. This DLC is probably worth much less than 5$.
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Kristian: No they don't have to do any such thing. They can easily just provide a Linux client installer as an unsupported extra just as several developers and publishers have already done.
"Unsupported extra" can rapidly become an ugly can of worms, no matter how much you would keep repeating that those "extra" are 200% unsupported you will have peoples asking for support, complaining and or asking for refund.

If somebody buy a game on GoG because he/she want the Linux version and that said version end up not working, not being updated, etc... what do you think he/she will do ? Just forget about it because after all it's an "unsupported extra"... personally I have some doubts. We already had peoples screaming in the forum and asking for refund because they didn't got a Steam key with their purchase (it was for Alan Wake IRC).
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Gersen: "Unsupported extra" can rapidly become an ugly can of worms, no matter how much you would keep repeating that those "extra" are 200% unsupported you will have peoples asking for support, complaining and or asking for refund.

If somebody buy a game on GoG because he/she want the Linux version and that said version end up not working, not being updated, etc... what do you think he/she will do ? Just forget about it because after all it's an "unsupported extra"... personally I have some doubts. We already had peoples screaming in the forum and asking for refund because they didn't got a Steam key with their purchase (it was for Alan Wake IRC).
GOG already does have unsupported executables as extras (well, one - The Lady, The Mage, and The Knight tech demo in the Divinity packages, doesn't even have a GOG installer). But I doubt many people will buy any of those games on GOG especially for that (it's likely not heavily sought-after), something that - as you say - will happen for Linux versions no matter the status of official support.
Post edited March 10, 2013 by Miaghstir