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Pretty deadly little thing.

Captain, I have some new information regarding "The Aristocrats". No, they're still laying low after their last heist, so low that we haven't seen Don or Freddie since the meeting with "The Boss". Someone might've hid them underground but we won't know for sure just now. Anyway, there's a new girl that was seen with Rick Fermione. She from outta town, don know exactly where. Seems a member of the borguise. It's bourgeoisie? Don't know sir, some fancy stuff I don't get--pearls, caviars, and champagnes, sir. Yes, one of my boys is following her. Yes, I know this is very delicate matter. Oh, the mayor... no, of course, no, I mean I'll talk to... Yes sir. No one seen. The report, yes. The last thing, sir--and this is a little bit unexpected--it looks like "The Aristocrats" are planning to move to a new district, any moment now. Can't tell for sure, but my bet is Connecticut Ave. We'll see. Will do, sir. Goodbye.

Omerta: City of Gangsters, an organized crime simulation you have been playing for the last couple of weeks just got bigger with The Con Artist DLC. There's a new henchman to recruit, new weapon, and a new district up for grabs. Experience "the greatest con of all time" in this action-packed expansion for only $4.99 on GOG.com.

Requires the base game Omerta: City of Gangsters on GOG in order to play.
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tfishell: A few comments from the Facebook post on release:
...
"I think that IF (and I honestly am not sure that it is a good idea at all for GOG) they are going to start offering DLC - the price point should be rethought - a $0.99 offering would likely not have garnered near the push back and negative reaction that this has ..."
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timppu: That's the problem with those negative comments, as if it is GOG who decides the price.

I checked Steam, and it offers the DLC with a similar price (and the base game apparently for a higher price than GOG?). So do these complainers really expect GOG to sell the same item for 1/5 of the price that other digital stores are selling it?

The only other option would be that GOG refuses to sell the DLC at all. That is hardly a solution to it either.

But as I keep saying, I don't like to buy my games in pieces. So if I ever bought Omerta, I also like to obtain it when it already has all the meaningful DLC available, and buy them all at the same time. But that does not mean I feel GOG should not release the DLC separately at the same time as other stores.

Also one point I forgot to add: at least GOG's approach to DLCs let you decide which of the DLCs you've purchased are activated in-game. I think Steam does not give you that option, but you have to have all the DLCs you have bought enabled. Some e.g. say that Saints Row 3 Complete is better with some DLC disabled, which doesn't seem to be possible in Steam (if you have purchased the DLC as part of a bundle deal etc.).
That is totally not gog's or steam's decision, it depends on the game.. Civ V for example lets you enable/disable DLCs.
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paulcmnt: Let me rephrase: what makes you think I don't know what that proverb means? Also, what makes you think all proverbs are always to be followed?
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orcishgamer: I already said: your response, in which you twisted it into an absolute, which it is clearly not.

What makes you think a proverb has to always be followed to be useful? It's merely to demonstrate wisdom in a pithy way, it's the old time version of "pull your head outta your ass, dude!"

GOG can change its mind and not all changes of mind will necessarily be bad. You'd have to be a fucking idiot to suggest the best course of action is to never change at all under any circumstances.
He did NOT suggest that.
Post edited March 09, 2013 by Tsugirai
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FlamingFirewire: All that needs to be done is make the DLC a part of the gamecard (and not separate) and make it explicitly clear what you get for what you pay for.
1000x this.
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orcishgamer: Oh, are we playing slippery slope now? Would you allow GOG to sacrifice babies to keep prices low?
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paulcmnt: That wasn't where I was going. According to you, if you aren't willing to give up the DRM-free practice, you're obtuse.
No, Mr. Absolute, that's not what I said, what I said is you misunderstood a simple proverb that suggests one who never changes their mind just might be an idiot. GOG changing their mind, when the time was right, to add DRM, very well may have been the right decision.

Your argument is basically a logical fallacy, you're insisting their previous policy was superior, based on nothing, ergo the new policy must be wrong. No one ever implied always changing your mind was the right thing, you're the only one insisting on absolutely always staying the same or always changing.

EDIT for shitty grammar.

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Tsugirai: He did NOT suggest that.
Umm, yes, he did: "I guess I should always change my mind, right? Sometimes it's better to be stubborn."

Read the proverb, now read his response.
Post edited March 09, 2013 by orcishgamer
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paulcmnt: Being smug doesn't help. Btw, would you give up GOG's DRM-free practice?
My take on this slippery slope: it is not my decision what GOG does. I vote with my wallet.

So if GOG would add DRM to their games, I would simply consider them as a Steam-wannabe with less features than Steam, meaning I would take my business to Steam et al instead, most probably.

But GOG selling DLC... as long as the DLC and base game are still DRM-free, I consider GOG to have an edge over the digital stores selling games+DLC with DRM, meaning I still prefer buying the games+DLC from GOG.

tl;dr: Vote with your wallet. More wallets, less bitching.
Quick post as I see same things over and over again, before I go get drunk for the rest of the day (Cider season!!! Yay!!!)

1- This is a shitty DLC. There are great DLCs out there, this isn't one of them. I don't think that's up for discussion, at least I don't recall anybody contesting that point and I've read most of the thread. With that in mind, it's a bad choice for the first DLC ever sold on GOG. Did they have a choice? Perhaps not. Probably not. But the fact remains, it's bad one. I already had this discussion with JMich, that should be enough.

2- PR is not done well. TET is on holidays, that's fine. However, it's bad management. I work on IT, I know several of you do. Would you leave on holidays right before a major release, and leave nobody on call for possible bugs? When I worked on a really big company back in Belgium, there was always someone on call, but I never did as I was just a junior. Now I work on a small company where the "entire technical team" is just me, and it sucks to have no backup. If I'm on holidays and there's a bug on the live site, I have to work. If my sister gets in a traffic accident and I go check on her, there's nobody to look and validate the new design we outsorced and just came in for approval. So it sucks for TET, I feel for you man, but management in GOG was not OK.

Maybe they should have made a big announcement about selling DLCs on the website while TET was here for PR. Maybe he could have gone to Paris next week. Maybe there should be someone for TET to delegate when he's out (which should be the case, weren't they looking for someone?). Either case, TET was out, forums were raging and no blue dared show their face as the PR guy was absent. That's very bad. I knew about DLCs as it was mentioned on the release of that space sim. But even forum regulars overlooked that, it seems. Just look at Roman 5.

3- Finally, I would like to know what the desired approach about eventual gold editions will be managed, but I already wrote about that. And I gotta run.
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timppu: Also one point I forgot to add: at least GOG's approach to DLCs let you decide which of the DLCs you've purchased are activated in-game. I think Steam does not give you that option, but you have to have all the DLCs you have bought enabled. Some e.g. say that Saints Row 3 Complete is better with some DLC disabled, which doesn't seem to be possible in Steam (if you have purchased the DLC as part of a bundle deal etc.).
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Tsugirai: That is totally not gog's or steam's decision, it depends on the game.. Civ V for example lets you enable/disable DLCs.
Yes it is, because Steam apparently doesn't let you decide yourself whether you will _install_ (or not) certain DLC you have purchased from there for a certain game. if both come part of e.g. a bundle deal.

What you said about Civ V is irrelevant, because that is _after_ the DLC has been installed already.

It is a similar question to whether you can decide yourself whether you will patch a game with the latest update or not. If you get the base game and the patch separately, then you can control it. If you buy the game from a place where the latest patch is automatically applied on your purchase during the first download/installation, you can't.
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paulcmnt: That wasn't where I was going. According to you, if you aren't willing to give up the DRM-free practice, you're obtuse.
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orcishgamer: No, Mr. Absolute, that's not what I said, what I said is you misunderstood a simple proverb that suggests one who never changes their mind just might be an idiot. GOG changing their mind, when the time was right, to add DRM, very well may have been the right decision.

Your argument is basically a logical fallacy, you're insisting their previous policy was superior, based on nothing, ergo the new policy must be wrong. No one ever implied always changing your mind was the right thing, you're the only one insisting on absolutely always staying the same or always changing.

EDIT for shitty grammar.

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Tsugirai: He did NOT suggest that.
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orcishgamer: Umm, yes, he did: "I guess I should always change my mind, right? Sometimes it's better to be stubborn."

Read the proverb, now read his response.
Just to be clear, do you know what "sometimes" means?
Post edited March 09, 2013 by Tsugirai
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Tsugirai: Just to be clear, do you know what "sometimes" means?
Yes, do you know what "dominant clause" means?
I can understand the upset that this is causing some users, however on the flip side you need to look at the bigger picture here.

Most games now come with some form of paid DLC, whether it is little enhancements to a game like this or if it is a larger scale expansion pack.

GOG at the end of the day is a business and has to look at avenues to create more revenue and evolve, as they get bigger they need more staff and therefore have to pay wages etc. Not forgetting they need to draw more and more people to the site.

Thinking of the business side of things, every business out there, no matter if it is the small market down the end of a street or a huge company is out for one thing. Maximizing sales, bringing customers in, selling product and of coure making money. Without profit a business can't survive

Now, this DLC, granted its not really an expansion, its the type of thing that would more be associated as a micro transaction (the type of thing you would buy in game whilst playing), you like the game, play it to death you may think awesome an extra character and weapon and theres also a small new area, I will get something out of that so buy it.

Now it is literally a case of vote with your wallet, you think thats a bit of a rip off, I don't like the game that much I will give it a miss. No harm done.


Now on the flip side of the coin, hypothetically, say on Monday GOG released Assassins Creed 3.

They do it as a base game for around $40, offer the Season Pass as an extra DLC for another $20 which means you get all current and future DLC included in that price.

However, not everyone wants all the DLC, say for example a multiplayer pack which the user is not interested in or extra SP content a user doesn't want as they just play multi. So GOG do the DLC separate so people can get exactly what they want and shape their own game to the way they want it.

Now take the new DLC that is out for AC3, Tyranny of King Washington, it is in 3 parts, if you get the season pass then you get each part included in the price, however you can buy them separate at around $10 a piece I believe it is (Not sure as I was bought Deluxe Edition for Christmas off my mother and it has Season Pass included). You may think I enjoyed AC3 and wonder what this is like so you have the option to purchase the first part, if you like it great and buy the rest of them or grab the season pass, once again if you don't like it just leave it be and don't buy any more.

The thing here is though as a question to the community, would you be happy with buying the Season Pass for AC3 or the decent sized expansion stuff separate. Or would you take the same stance in thinking paid DLC / Expansion pack is a rip off and should be included no matter what even though it is adding decent hours to a game?
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Tsugirai: That is totally not gog's or steam's decision, it depends on the game.. Civ V for example lets you enable/disable DLCs.
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timppu: Yes it is, because Steam apparently doesn't let you decide yourself whether you will _install_ (or not) certain DLC you have purchased from there for a certain game. if both come part of e.g. a bundle deal.

What you said about Civ V is irrelevant, because that is _after_ the DLC has been installed already.

It is a similar question to whether you can decide yourself whether you will patch a game with the latest update or not. If you get the base game and the patch separately, then you can control it. If you buy the game from a place where the latest patch is automatically applied on your purchase during the first download/installation, you can't.
You did not say "install" the first time. You said in-game activation. HUUUGE difference there.
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3tavrk/
Now, back on topic. My problem is with the people arguing in favour of the dlc is that they say "every business" and "every online retailer" etc. etc.

But you miss the point right there! What I and many others loved about gog that it did not follow conventions, it did not do what "every" every did. They were unique. Picking up dlc policy is a step towards losing this genuinity, and in my humble opinion, it is a huge step as well.

SEGA does what Nintendon't, but do GoG do any more what Steam does not?
You should read at least a few preceding comments before making an idiot out of yourself.
Post edited March 09, 2013 by Tsugirai
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Iain: ...
The real irony is that probably more than one of these people who have a problem with the whole DLC thing were the ones bitching about the original lack of Alien Crossfire expac...

Most certainly it wasn't all of them, but I'll bet it was at least some.
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Iain: ...
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orcishgamer: The real irony is that probably more than one of these people who have a problem with the whole DLC thing were the ones bitching about the original lack of Alien Crossfire expac...

Most certainly it wasn't all of them, but I'll bet it was at least some.
They were complaining that it wasn't included in the first place, not that they couldn't buy it separately. Which is actually kinda similar to this anti-dlc conversation, which makes your argument completely invalid. Also, cussing does not make your point stronger, it makes you seem uneducated. Red doesn't go faster either.
Post edited March 09, 2013 by Tsugirai
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orcishgamer: The real irony is that probably more than one of these people who have a problem with the whole DLC thing were the ones bitching about the original lack of Alien Crossfire expac...

Most certainly it wasn't all of them, but I'll bet it was at least some.
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Tsugirai: They were complaining that it wasn't included in the first place, not that they couldn't buy it separately. Which is actually kinda similar to this anti-dlc conversation, which makes your argument completely invalid. Also, cussing does not make your point stronger, it makes you seem uneducated. Red doesn't go faster either.
You really consider the word "bitching" to be cussing? Given my usual speech, nah, that's not cussing at all.

It's a new game dude, the DLC isn't free, until it's a couple years old you get to pay for the DLC, get it through your head, this game came out last damned month (sorry, said "this"), THE DLC IS NOT FREE, however, it is optional, so just don't worry about it.

In 3 years you will likely have the option of buying OMERTA GOTY with that the goodness included, then you can pay less for your toys. Until such time, you will have to suck it up like the rest of the people who want to play new games.
Post edited March 09, 2013 by orcishgamer