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So what exactly happened? Chloe desperately wants surgery because she hates being a woman so she tried to scam everyone out of their hard earned money? Who is this Allistair person and what did he do? Did she really try to kill herself?
Post edited May 17, 2013 by langurmonkey
high rated
Whoa, hold on there...
The guy who TOLD THE TRUTH about a person who LIED and SCAMMED gets punished, while the latter receives nothing but sympathy ? Really ? Since when is telling the truth inferior ?
I know I'm oversimplifying things. I know that even liars deserve a degree of respect. I am imaginative enough to be able to come up with scenarios when outright telling the truth can be harmful (no matter what Immanuel Kant may have to say)... But in this case the only harm occurring is the one caused by a lie in the first place.
If I were Allistar, I would jump ship. He has nothing to feel ashamed of.
Post edited May 17, 2013 by Vestin
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ET3D: If there are lawyers in the room maybe they can enlighten us on this subject.
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keeveek: At least in Poland, fraud attempt is penalised just like successful fraud. Only the punishement would be less severe.
I hope Chloe gets pretty severe punishment . If not a lot of other people might try their luck.
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langurmonkey: Chloe desperately wants surgery because she hates being a woman (...)?
Don't let the pronouns confuse you, it's the other way around.
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keeveek: At least in Poland, fraud attempt is penalised just like successful fraud. Only the punishement would be less severe.
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SpaceManThe: I hope Chloe gets pretty severe punishment . If not a lot of other people might try their luck.
I agree. And her actions have probably led to a lot of people never again trusting these I need money or I'm going to die stories which will probably lead to some people dying in the future.
Post edited May 17, 2013 by langurmonkey
Did Indiegogo report it to authorities anyway?
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Vestin: Whoa, hold on there...
The guy who TOLD THE TRUTH about a person who LIED and SCAMMED gets punished, while the latter receives nothing but sympathy ? Really ? Since when is telling the truth inferior ?
I know I'm oversimplifying things. I know that even liars deserve a degree of respect. I am imaginative enough to be able to come up with scenarios when outright telling the truth can be harmful (no matter what Immanuel Kant may have to say)... But in this case the only harm occurring is the one cause by a lie in the first place.
If I were Allistar, I would jump ship. He has nothing to feel ashamed of.
If I could up-rep this post more I would. I wanted to post something like this but I would have been harsher in my delivery. I'm glad someone else posted in a more sensible way than I would have.
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ET3D: I'm glad Allistair did what he did. It really cleared the air. It largely stopped the speculation, which was in some cases was a lot worse, and usually did involve her being transgender.
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TwilightBard: I don't think he was right to out her though. There were other ways to convey the information that he had without outing her, which is still a huge betrayal in that regard.
No. It wasn't right. But Is it more of a betrayal than being submitted to emotional blackmail for a month, keeping your part of the bargain... and then the person who was blackmailing you going ahead and acting on what she was threatening to do anyway?

He made many mistakes, but I can see how he got there. And now many people are misunderstanding or distorting the story to paint him as a villain and ignore or minimize the chain of lies that brought this whole situation to pass.

EDIT: In an unrelated note, this is a great blog post highlighting another side of this debate that truly deserves criticism:

http://beefjack.com/features/a-suicide-attempt-is-not-an-invitation-for-cruelty-its-the-very-opposite/
Post edited May 17, 2013 by macnol
Brief, general advice on underlying symptoms and solutions both for the one causing and receiving blackmail using suicide threats:

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/wellness/2011/11/manipulated-by-suicide-threats/

What she should've expected when she was opening up to her peers in the gaming community:

http://www.thestar.com/business/small_business/people/2013/01/25/the-right-of-inclusion--4-tips-for-managing-a-business-with-tran.html

Destructoid updated their reasons for the suspension a third time:

http://forum.destructoid.com/showthread.php?29659-Chloe-Sagal-Allistair-Pinsof-and-Destructoid-s-Response&p=1164173&viewfull=1#post1164173

An apology and update
First of all, we at Destructoid absolutely do not post sensitive information given in confidence without a person's consent -- especially one which may put an individual's life at risk. That's just reckless.

We would have published all of the investigative findings regarding the Indiegogo case except for the fact that it was closely tied to a person at risk of suicide. The fraud was uncovered, the public was informed, and people recovered their money. Yes, Allistair did a great job in uncovering that. Nobody is saying that he's not a good journalist.

Allistair is NOT in trouble for uncovering the fraud and reporting it.

We are super proud he went above and beyond the call of duty to investigate. Ultimately, we chose not to run the story because the person was a suicide risk. He would not be under any trouble had he stopped there.

He is subsequently in trouble for what followed -- which was revealing confidential details that puts her life at risk. He has acknowledged this on his Twitter account since.


A PERSON'S LIFE IS AT RISK. TWICE. THAT PERSON IS NOW ON SUICIDE WATCH IN A HOSPITAL. THAT'S WHERE I DRAW THE LINE. ENOUGH.

Lastly, there's another separate issue more specific to me where I simply asked an employee not to do something and they did it anyway. I have repeatedly asked an employee to not do something and they're doing it anyway. At any job this is a fireable offense.

Anyone trying to correlate Allistair being fired for journalist work is completely misinformed. These are two separate events almost 6 weeks apart.


Update 3:

Allistair has been suspended from Destructoid for releasing sensitive information on social media against the wishes of his direct supervisor, some of which was privileged and personal information.

The facts surrounding this case are not clear, as Chloe remains hospitalized and unavailable for comment. Due to legal reasons, we not releasing any additional information at this time.

We apologize for not releasing information sooner, but our resources are tight due to staff scattered to cover E3 in Los Angeles.

Our apologies to everyone involved.

Last edited by Niero; 05-17-2013 at 05:55 PM.
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langurmonkey: So what exactly happened? Chloe desperately wants surgery because she hates being a woman so she tried to scam everyone out of their hard earned money? Who is this Allistair person and what did he do? Did she really try to kill herself?
For some people, the hatred of their wrongly sexed body reaches such a level that they'll do anything to rid themselves of it.

Yes, this was a scam so far as the reasons behind the funds being sought were not as advertised, but people shouldn't suggest that this was one of those, I'm sick of the drapes, by me new drapes types of decisions. For some people, unfortunately, ultimately the only fix for this sort of thing is surgery. And insurance never covers it regardless of whether or not it's ultimately a life saving operation.

I know that my insurance company won't pay for anything related to sexual orientation or gender identity, but will pay for anxiety, depression and various consequences of having trouble in those areas.
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Vestin: Whoa, hold on there...
The guy who TOLD THE TRUTH about a person who LIED and SCAMMED gets punished, while the latter receives nothing but sympathy ? Really ? Since when is telling the truth inferior ?
I know I'm oversimplifying things. I know that even liars deserve a degree of respect. I am imaginative enough to be able to come up with scenarios when outright telling the truth can be harmful (no matter what Immanuel Kant may have to say)... But in this case the only harm occurring is the one caused by a lie in the first place.
If I were Allistar, I would jump ship. He has nothing to feel ashamed of.
The reaction to Alistar is a bit over the top, but ultimately, regardless of what Chloe has done, there were things he posted which really shouldn't have been posted. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Yes, she did lie and she did scam people, but you make it sound like it was just another scam out there. The reality is that for some people with this sort of gender identity issue, it really does become a life or death struggle and I'm not sure how you can conclude that somebody that's been to the hospital because of being a suicide risk not just once, but twice is not deserving of some measure of sympathy.

Ultimately, scam or no scam this is somebody who is clearly absolutely miserable.
Post edited May 17, 2013 by hedwards
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DarrkPhoenix: So in response to someone clearing the air surrounding a scam Destructoid decides to publicly denounce the employee who did so. What a bunch of cunts.
+1 agreed.

Do we want to live in a society where lies and fraud are perpetuated and covered up? Shit there's already enough of that in politics. I can forsee quite a backlash towards Destructoid over this. Shame on you guys!

"Chloe" dug her own grave and should be charged with fraud for attempting to take advantage of others compassion.
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langurmonkey: So what exactly happened? Chloe desperately wants surgery because she hates being a woman so she tried to scam everyone out of their hard earned money? Who is this Allistair person and what did he do? Did she really try to kill herself?
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hedwards: For some people, the hatred of their wrongly sexed body reaches such a level that they'll do anything to rid themselves of it.

Yes, this was a scam so far as the reasons behind the funds being sought were not as advertised, but people shouldn't suggest that this was one of those, I'm sick of the drapes, by me new drapes types of decisions. For some people, unfortunately, ultimately the only fix for this sort of thing is surgery. And insurance never covers it regardless of whether or not it's ultimately a life saving operation.

I know that my insurance company won't pay for anything related to sexual orientation or gender identity, but will pay for anxiety, depression and various consequences of having trouble in those areas.
So Chloe is a thief but only because she couldn't take the suffering anymore. So she isn't really a bad person, not like the thieves who just want some bling bling, nice cars etc. I understand. It is like a person who hasn't eaten in months, trying to steal a piece of bread. I wouldn't consider this person, a soulless evil person.
Post edited May 17, 2013 by langurmonkey
high rated
I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread yet, but apparently Chloe isn't yet a real person in the sense that she has only been living as Chloe on the internet and is still identifying as male in the real world. This suggests that she's not ready for surgery and needs counselling. Gender reassignment surgery doesn't suddenly make you transition... the generally accepted sequence AFAIK is transition, then hormones, then surgery.

Also worth noting is that she apparently didn't feel she was doing anything wrong. Rather than "I know it's wrong, but I really need this" she didn't see it as a scam at all. If this isn't a sign she needs counselling, I don't know what is.
Post edited May 17, 2013 by SirPrimalform
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hedwards: Yes, this was a scam so far as the reasons behind the funds being sought were not as advertised, but people shouldn't suggest that this was one of those, I'm sick of the drapes, by me new drapes types of decisions. For some people, unfortunately, ultimately the only fix for this sort of thing is surgery. And insurance never covers it regardless of whether or not it's ultimately a life saving operation.
Fun fact: Brazil is still behind the times in many respects, but since 2008 our public healthcare system covers gender reassignment surgery and hormonal therapy for transgender people. We're one of only a very few countries where that happens.

If the subject comes up in your country (or anyone else who reads this message), take the opportunity to support it. It doesn't happen easily, especially if religious bigots have their claws in politics (as they do here). But this change in policy can help so many Chloes we don't even know about.

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SirPrimalform: I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread yet, but apparently Chloe isn't yet a real person in the sense that she has only been living as Chloe on the internet and is still identifying as male in the real world. This suggests that she's not ready for surgery and needs counselling. Gender reassignment surgery doesn't suddenly make you transition... the generally accepted sequence AFAIK is transition, then hormones, then surgery.
True. If I remember correctly, Allistair mentioned that he (or another LGBT supporter he brought in to counsel Chloe) tried to explain this process to her, but she was adamant on believing that jumping directly to surgery was the only option.
Gender nor any other status should be used as an excuse to keep the truth from coming out in a case of fraud. If the money was going to something totally unrelated I agree the information isn't relevant. However if it was really going to a gender reassignment surgery, people deserve to know that.

The harassment people get for being transgendered is wrong, and people are entitled to privacy over the internet regarding such matters. Once you setup a public donation drive under false conditions though, your right to privacy shouldn't trump that from being exposed. If nothing else to clear up any lingering doubt about IndieGoGo for canceling the project. Now this whole mess has ended up costing someone their job.

The internet can generate plenty of outrage when someone from Microsoft says "Deal with it!" or someone from EA says "The Wii U is crap!", yet when someone loses their job for exposing the truth behind fraud not nearly as much is said. I never visited Destructoid much before, but this will ensure I don't in the future. If for some reason I do need to go there for something, I will make sure it is in a browser with ad blocking enabled.