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SirPrimalform: Ah, but we don't know what was actually said...
Well lorek posted a gaming deal in here . I wrote to him : " Wrong thread " . I don't know anything about SpaceManThe's post .
Yeah I know that now, I clarified things in my next post.
Post edited May 18, 2013 by thelovebat
So if I'm not mistaken (there's a lot to read) she was actually using the money to help pay for sex reassignment surgery?
Obviously what she did was wrong, but this also says a lot about the treatment of transgendered people. She shouldn't have to resort to stealing for this.
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Toast_burner: So if I'm not mistaken (there's a lot to read) she was actually using the money to help pay for sex reassignment surgery?
Obviously what she did was wrong, but this also says a lot about the treatment of transgendered people. She shouldn't have to resort to stealing for this.
Keep reading through the topic and you'll get the whole story. There's not really any reason for Chloe to be playing the victim card here.
The more I hear about Chloe's situation the less sympathetic I am becoming. And I was very sympathetic from the start.
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oasis789: The more I hear about Chloe's situation the less sympathetic I am becoming. And I was very sympathetic from the start.
Yeah, me too. In face of all the rumours I was giving her the benefit of the doubt, but it turns out pretty much every rumour was true. =(

Not only that, but a total lack of remorse.
Post edited May 18, 2013 by SirPrimalform
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SirPrimalform: Yeah, me too. In face of all the rumours I was giving her the benefit of the doubt, but it turns out pretty much every rumour was true. =(

Not only that, but a total lack of remorse.
I said it once and I'll say it again.
Chloe, be a good capitalist, make a good game (after playing Homesick I know you can), sell your game at reasonable price and you're golden.
This way, there is no need to resort to emotional blackmail, lying or other crooked things.
Hell, if I was able to make something of Homesick quality, I'd be pushing my game to GOG already : ))
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Toast_burner: So if I'm not mistaken (there's a lot to read) she was actually using the money to help pay for sex reassignment surgery?
Obviously what she did was wrong, but this also says a lot about the treatment of transgendered people. She shouldn't have to resort to stealing for this.
Transgendered individuals don't need to resort to scamming for gender reassignment surgery. I won't argue that there isn't still a lot of discrimination against transgendered individuals (since there is), but there are also numerous support groups and networks in place for such individuals to help with the mental transition from one gender to the other, and then with the physical transition. Chloe wasn't willing to make use of any of these groups, and hadn't even really made the mental transition (she was still living as a male in the real world), but still wanted to jump straight to surgery and resorted to lying to try to raise the money for this. Ultimately it seems to me that Chloe has some serious psychological issues that need to be resolved, and while these issues likely stem from her being transgendered they ultimately extend far beyond that. Hopefully she's now being forced to get the kind of help she needs, as she was unwilling to get this help voluntarily, instead resorting to deception and later on suicide threats (which seemed to be aimed at manipulating people).
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DarrkPhoenix: and hadn't even really made the mental transition (she was still living as a male in the real world), but still wanted to jump straight to surgery and resorted to lying to try to raise the money for this. Ultimately it seems to me that Chloe has some serious psychological issues that need to be resolved, and while these issues likely stem from her being transgendered they ultimately extend far beyond that.
Stop right there.
- She was living as a male not because she was undecided, but because of harassment she experienced offline.
- Her erratic behavior ("serious psychological issues" ) stems from her being harassed. (Obviously, it's not an excuse to defraud innocent strangers.)
- The internets is a part of the real world.
- Get off your armchair.
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Starmaker: - She was living as a male not because she was undecided, but because of harassment she experienced offline.
I don't think anyone was suggesting that she was undecided, just that she hadn't transitioned yet.

Of course the internet is a part of the real world, but it's a separate part where people often have separate (or no) identities anyway. You know damn well that by real they mean physical.

And if she couldn't stand to live as female because of harassment, how exactly would surgery make that better?
Post edited May 18, 2013 by SirPrimalform
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Starmaker: Stop right there.
- She was living as a male not because she was undecided, but because of harassment she experienced offline.
- Her erratic behavior ("serious psychological issues" ) stems from her being harassed. (Obviously, it's not an excuse to defraud innocent strangers.)
- The internets is a part of the real world.
- Get off your armchair.
My armchair is quite comfy and helps to keep me from getting too uptight. You should try it sometime.

I never said that she was undecided, but rather that she hadn't made the mental transition. This means fully coming to terms with her gender identity, both as it applies to herself as well as how it applies to her interactions with the people she knows. My understanding is that very few people she knew in real life ever knew she was transgendered, and the same applied for her interactions with online communities (although she presented a different gender in each case). From what I've read, the mental transition is one of the biggest aspects of gender reassignment for transgendered individuals- it tends to be the hardest step where the most support is needed, and only later does the physical transition fully occur, typically first through hormone treatments and later through surgery.

As for harassment, I haven't seen much information presented on just how much she was actually harassed in real life. I've aware she was the target of quite a bit of harassment online, but my understanding there is that that harassment only started after she tried to defraud people and serious questions started being asked about it. This would seem to indicate that the psychological issues were there to begin with, even if the harassment later served to amplify them.
Today, Chloe and Allistair were interviewed simultaneously by the Gamers Against Bigotry website. It's worth a read,

http://gamersagainstbigotry.org/2013/05/chloe-allistair-roundtable/

Yeah, it comes off a little bit forced from both sides in an effort to make it seem all rainbows and unicorns, make peace and forget everything that happened... but, looking at the irrationality surrounding both extremes of this debate everywhere on the internet right now (especially on twitter and other troll-infested venues) maybe that's exactly what we need.
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macnol: Today, Chloe and Allistair were interviewed simultaneously by the Gamers Against Bigotry website. It's worth a read,

http://gamersagainstbigotry.org/2013/05/chloe-allistair-roundtable/

Yeah, it comes off a little bit forced from both sides in an effort to make it seem all rainbows and unicorns, make peace and forget everything that happened... but, looking at the irrationality surrounding both extremes of this debate everywhere on the internet right now (especially on twitter and other troll-infested venues) maybe that's exactly what we need.
Wow what a crock of shit. I love how theft/fraud gets glossed over with a "poor me" story.
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macnol: Today, Chloe and Allistair were interviewed simultaneously by the Gamers Against Bigotry website. It's worth a read,

http://gamersagainstbigotry.org/2013/05/chloe-allistair-roundtable/

Yeah, it comes off a little bit forced from both sides in an effort to make it seem all rainbows and unicorns, make peace and forget everything that happened... but, looking at the irrationality surrounding both extremes of this debate everywhere on the internet right now (especially on twitter and other troll-infested venues) maybe that's exactly what we need.
Yeah, I'll agree about the forced part. I also don't like how it seems mostly to be about Allistair outing her and not the massive massive fraud she tried to commit. Well, I'm glad she's ok at least... but she's still incredibly manipulative and I'm certainly not inclined to forgive her yet (not that I'm implying my forgiveness is something she should care about or even be aware of).
Post edited May 19, 2013 by SirPrimalform
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9kpnsrjsX1qal65m.jpg

[screams internally]
Post edited May 19, 2013 by keeveek