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TwilightBard: I don't think he was right to out her though.
I don't think that he really outed her. I don't think anyone on the internet knows now who this guy is in real life. Anyone in her real life who didn't know before who Chloe is doesn't know more now, and anyone who did would have known about the issue.
He/she was the one who scammed people and straight out lied to everyone. Its no one elses fault but his/hers. If people get in trouble for telling the truth and revealing truthful, relevant information especially to those involved in the campaign then Chloe needed to grow a bigger backbone before taking to the internet. If Chloe is on suicide watch there were already problems well before the IndieGoGo campaign was run, and no one else should be responsible for his/her own choices and decisions.

This is where Chloe will learn a thing or two about the harsh realities of responsibility and the law. I heard apparently that she told Alistair (the Destructoid writer) that he/she would end up coming out with the truth him/herself to let everyone know that he/she was dishonest, but Chloe never did. But now that Alistair decides to do it, he's the one getting thrown under the bus. That isn't right at all, regardless of what the higher ups at Destructoid think and what unwritten rules they have in the editing department.

So now what's going to happen? Well, people were really supportive of this game being made and of helping out a fellow developer in need at the same time. Now Chloe has lost all of that support, betrayed the trust of everyone involved, could get into a lot of legal trouble, tainted the idea of crowdfunding future games (for fear of getting scammed one way or another) which really hurts future legit developers, and under the stress of the situation he/she put themselves in to begin with has had a big mental breakdown resulting in his/her current mental state. On top of all that, Chloe put Alistair into a lose/lose situation by betraying his trust too. Chloe chooses to befriend him after he wrote an article covering the Homesick IndieGoGo, he's probably like "Sure why not? Chloe seems like a cool person." Then boom, Chloe reveals the big turn of events and no matter what he did, nothing good would ever come of it. He deals with either the threat of suicide (of which he would get villainized for if Chloe did it, even though its not his fault at all), or he deals with not exposing the scam for what it is and withholding information from those that have the right to know. What the heck could he have possibly done that wouldn't have gotten him scrutinized in this ordeal?

And who's fault is it for all of that? Chloe's, and only Chloe's. Destructoid and anyone else can spin this however they like, but the buck stops at Chloe as far as responsibility is concerned for this matter. I suppose close real life friends or family members could have known the extent of the scam and could have brought an end to this saga much earlier. Who knows how many, or if anyone else knew. If I were a close friend and knew, I would've done whatever I could to prevent Chloe from running the campaign and making up that story, knowing something like this would end up happening if he/she went through with it. But the fact remains, someone wasn't thinking things through before posting something to the internet, and it clearly wasn't Alistair in this case. It doesn't just go away, and several months, several years from now Chloe will find that out.

This has nothing to do with the issue of transgenders or that sort of thing, its pretty much irrelevant. Whatever surgery or procedure Chloe could have claimed in the campaign other than the actual one she (in reality) wanted it wouldn't have mattered, it'd still be unethical and dishonest to spin the truth the way Chloe did for more money. What I'm also wondering is if this Homesick game actually had any chance of getting made at all, if Chloe intended to make the game but also wanted the gender reassignment done too, or if Chloe planned on just getting the transgender procedures done first then coming out with it once the money was gone and people couldn't get it back.

I guess only time will tell with this one. If he/she never had any intention of finishing the game and releasing it, this qualifies as fraud and he/she could see some serious repercussions for that, suicide watchlist or not. Once you're in the grown up world, you don't just suddenly receive a Get Out of Jail Free Card like you would as a juvenile.

I do hope he/she gets better, and that his/her mental state manages to improve. I wouldn't want to see him/her ever bring harm on themselves even after they've done all this. I just hope Chloe realizes the gravity of the situation of what he/she's done, can stand up and apologize, and then take responsibility with whatever punishment he/she receives.

That is all.
Post edited May 18, 2013 by thelovebat
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thelovebat: He/she was the one who scammed people and straight out lied to everyone. Its no one elses fault but his/hers. If people get in trouble for telling the truth and revealing truthful, relevant information especially to those involved in the campaign then Chloe needed to grow a bigger backbone before taking to the internet. If Chloe is on suicide watch there were already problems well before the IndieGoGo campaign was run, and no one else should be responsible for his/her own choices and decisions.

This is where Chloe will learn a thing or two about the harsh realities of responsibility and the law. I heard apparently that she told Alistair (the Destructoid writer) that he/she would end up coming out with the truth him/herself to let everyone know that he/she was dishonest, but Chloe never did. But now that Alistair decides to do it, he's the one getting thrown under the bus. That isn't right at all, regardless of what the higher ups at Destructoid think and what unwritten rules they have in the editing department.

So now what's going to happen? Well, people were really supportive of this game being made and of helping out a fellow developer in need at the same time. Now Chloe has lost all of that support, betrayed the trust of everyone involved, could get into a lot of legal trouble, tainted the idea of crowdfunding future games (for fear of getting scammed one way or another) which really hurts future legit developers, and under the stress of the situation he/she put themselves in to begin with has had a big mental breakdown resulting in his/her current mental state. On top of all that, Chloe put Alistair into a lose/lose situation by betraying his trust too. Chloe chooses to befriend him after he wrote an article covering the Homesick IndieGoGo, he's probably like "Sure why not? Chloe seems like a cool person." Then boom, Chloe reveals the big turn of events and no matter what he did, nothing good would ever come of it. He deals with either the threat of suicide (of which he would get villainized for if Chloe did it, even though its not his fault at all), or he deals with not exposing the scam for what it is and withholding information from those that have the right to know. What the heck could he have possibly done that wouldn't have gotten him scrutinized in this ordeal?

And who's fault is it for all of that? Chloe's, and only Chloe's. Destructoid and anyone else can spin this however they like, but the buck stops at Chloe as far as responsibility is concerned for this matter. I suppose close real life friends or family members could have known the extent of the scam and could have brought an end to this saga much earlier. Who knows how many, or if anyone else knew. If I were a close friend and knew, I would've done whatever I could to prevent Chloe from running the campaign and making up that story, knowing something like this would end up happening if he/she went through with it. But the fact remains, someone wasn't thinking things through before posting something to the internet, and it clearly wasn't Alistair in this case. It doesn't just go away, and several months, several years from now Chloe will find that out.

This has nothing to do with the issue of transgenders or that sort of thing, its pretty much irrelevant. Whatever surgery or procedure Chloe could have claimed in the campaign other than the actual one she (in reality) wanted it wouldn't have mattered, it'd still be unethical and dishonest to spin the truth the way Chloe did for more money. What I'm also wondering is if this Homesick game actually had any chance of getting made at all, if Chloe intended to make the game but also wanted the gender reassignment done too, or if Chloe planned on just getting the transgender procedures done first then coming out with it once the money was gone and people couldn't get it back.

I guess only time will tell with this one. If he/she never had any intention of finishing the game and releasing it, this qualifies as fraud and he/she could see some serious repercussions for that, suicide watchlist or not. Once you're in the grown up world, you don't just suddenly receive a Get Out of Jail Free Card like you would as a juvenile.

I do hope he/she gets better, and that his/her mental state manages to improve. I wouldn't want to see him/her ever bring harm on themselves even after they've done all this. I just hope Chloe realizes the gravity of the situation of he/she's done, can stand up and apologize, and then take responsibility with whatever punishment he/she receives.

That is all.
I don't know if I am misreading what you wrote, or if you are under the mistaken assumption the IndieGoGo campaign was for a new Homesick game. It was actually under the false pretense that it was to save Chloe's life, but actually to fund the gender reassignment surgery. Not that it invalidates any of what you said, because it doesn't, I just figured I would clarify that in case you were under the assumption it was to fund a new game. :)
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thelovebat: He/she was the one who scammed people and straight out lied to everyone. Its no one elses fault but his/hers. If people get in trouble for telling the truth and revealing truthful, relevant information especially to those involved in the campaign then Chloe needed to grow a bigger backbone before taking to the internet. If Chloe is on suicide watch there were already problems well before the IndieGoGo campaign was run, and no one else should be responsible for his/her own choices and decisions.

This is where Chloe will learn a thing or two about the harsh realities of responsibility and the law. I heard apparently that she told Alistair (the Destructoid writer) that he/she would end up coming out with the truth him/herself to let everyone know that he/she was dishonest, but Chloe never did. But now that Alistair decides to do it, he's the one getting thrown under the bus. That isn't right at all, regardless of what the higher ups at Destructoid think and what unwritten rules they have in the editing department.

So now what's going to happen? Well, people were really supportive of this game being made and of helping out a fellow developer in need at the same time. Now Chloe has lost all of that support, betrayed the trust of everyone involved, could get into a lot of legal trouble, tainted the idea of crowdfunding future games (for fear of getting scammed one way or another) which really hurts future legit developers, and under the stress of the situation he/she put themselves in to begin with has had a big mental breakdown resulting in his/her current mental state. On top of all that, Chloe put Alistair into a lose/lose situation by betraying his trust too. Chloe chooses to befriend him after he wrote an article covering the Homesick IndieGoGo, he's probably like "Sure why not? Chloe seems like a cool person." Then boom, Chloe reveals the big turn of events and no matter what he did, nothing good would ever come of it. He deals with either the threat of suicide (of which he would get villainized for if Chloe did it, even though its not his fault at all), or he deals with not exposing the scam for what it is and withholding information from those that have the right to know. What the heck could he have possibly done that wouldn't have gotten him scrutinized in this ordeal?

And who's fault is it for all of that? Chloe's, and only Chloe's. Destructoid and anyone else can spin this however they like, but the buck stops at Chloe as far as responsibility is concerned for this matter. I suppose close real life friends or family members could have known the extent of the scam and could have brought an end to this saga much earlier. Who knows how many, or if anyone else knew. If I were a close friend and knew, I would've done whatever I could to prevent Chloe from running the campaign and making up that story, knowing something like this would end up happening if he/she went through with it. But the fact remains, someone wasn't thinking things through before posting something to the internet, and it clearly wasn't Alistair in this case. It doesn't just go away, and several months, several years from now Chloe will find that out.

This has nothing to do with the issue of transgenders or that sort of thing, its pretty much irrelevant. Whatever surgery or procedure Chloe could have claimed in the campaign other than the actual one she (in reality) wanted it wouldn't have mattered, it'd still be unethical and dishonest to spin the truth the way Chloe did for more money. What I'm also wondering is if this Homesick game actually had any chance of getting made at all, if Chloe intended to make the game but also wanted the gender reassignment done too, or if Chloe planned on just getting the transgender procedures done first then coming out with it once the money was gone and people couldn't get it back.

I guess only time will tell with this one. If he/she never had any intention of finishing the game and releasing it, this qualifies as fraud and he/she could see some serious repercussions for that, suicide watchlist or not. Once you're in the grown up world, you don't just suddenly receive a Get Out of Jail Free Card like you would as a juvenile.

I do hope he/she gets better, and that his/her mental state manages to improve. I wouldn't want to see him/her ever bring harm on themselves even after they've done all this. I just hope Chloe realizes the gravity of the situation of he/she's done, can stand up and apologize, and then take responsibility with whatever punishment he/she receives.

That is all.
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Theta_Sigma: I don't know if I am misreading what you wrote, or if you are under the mistaken assumption the IndieGoGo campaign was for a new Homesick game. It was actually under the false pretense that it was to save Chloe's life, but actually to fund the gender reassignment surgery. Not that it invalidates any of what you said, because it doesn't, I just figured I would clarify that in case you were under the assumption it was to fund a new game. :)
Sort of half true. I remember the whole reason for the IndieGoGo was for the supposed surgery to save his/her life, but in return I thought that Homesick would be made and released in return for all those who funded extra dollars for the surgery. A situation of "You guys help provide a service of paying for my surgery, I'll provide a service of giving you guys a game." I assumed that the game was partially done at the time of the campaign and he/she would finish it faster if he/she could get the surgery done. When in better health its easier to make games.

Now knowing the truth I understand what you're saying and realize the full situation now. But yeah it still remains unchanged that Chloe lied to everyone regardless of whether or not she got people's money in the end, and it was unethical. Now Chloe will have to deal with this the rest of his/her life, and who knows if people will ever fund something of his/hers again after this debacle, even among real life friends. It will be harder for anyone Chloe knows to trust him/her now (even in real life), that's a pretty big deal.
Post edited May 18, 2013 by thelovebat
So, it will never end, huh? You all gonna peck it to until there are only bones left?
Post edited May 18, 2013 by keeveek
comment removed
Post edited May 18, 2013 by lorek
edited
Post edited May 18, 2013 by ne_zavarj
deleted
Post edited May 18, 2013 by SpaceManThe
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thelovebat: ...
Homesick was already made and released before any of this.
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keeveek: So, it will never end, huh? You all gonna peck it to until there are only bones left?
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lorek: comment removed
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ne_zavarj: edited
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SpaceManThe: deleted
Huh?
Post edited May 18, 2013 by SirPrimalform
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SpaceManThe: deleted
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SirPrimalform: Huh?
I wish this whole topic was handled like this from the beginning...
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amok: I wish this whole topic was handled like this from the beginning...
What, deleted?
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amok: I wish this whole topic was handled like this from the beginning...
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SirPrimalform: What, deleted?
I liked the conversation between the last 3 above you much better than what has happened before :)
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amok: I liked the conversation between the last 3 above you much better than what has happened before :)
Ah, but we don't know what was actually said...
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amok: I liked the conversation between the last 3 above you much better than what has happened before :)
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SirPrimalform: Ah, but we don't know what was actually said...
And that is the best part. Win-win situation.
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hedwards: Yes, this was a scam so far as the reasons behind the funds being sought were not as advertised, but people shouldn't suggest that this was one of those, I'm sick of the drapes, by me new drapes types of decisions. For some people, unfortunately, ultimately the only fix for this sort of thing is surgery. And insurance never covers it regardless of whether or not it's ultimately a life saving operation.
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macnol: Fun fact: Brazil is still behind the times in many respects, but since 2008 our public healthcare system covers gender reassignment surgery and hormonal therapy for transgender people. We're one of only a very few countries where that happens.

If the subject comes up in your country (or anyone else who reads this message), take the opportunity to support it. It doesn't happen easily, especially if religious bigots have their claws in politics (as they do here). But this change in policy can help so many Chloes we don't even know about.

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SirPrimalform: I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread yet, but apparently Chloe isn't yet a real person in the sense that she has only been living as Chloe on the internet and is still identifying as male in the real world. This suggests that she's not ready for surgery and needs counselling. Gender reassignment surgery doesn't suddenly make you transition... the generally accepted sequence AFAIK is transition, then hormones, then surgery.
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macnol: True. If I remember correctly, Allistair mentioned that he (or another LGBT supporter he brought in to counsel Chloe) tried to explain this process to her, but she was adamant on believing that jumping directly to surgery was the only option.
This seemingly unusual response (jumping directly to surgery), along with this person's other reported interactions with GaiaMike, Allistiar, and others, is what makes me question whether this person's main issues may have nothing to do with gender identity. The whole pattern (particularly the reported reluctance to talk to mental health care professionals while under hospital care) seems to fall more in line with factitious disorders (look it up). However, this suggestion is also no more than speculation.

[One edit for clarity.]
Post edited May 18, 2013 by Luned