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http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2653-Piracy
I think he hit this one right on the money.
I think they touched on some important issues, they weren't spot on on everything though. They also ignored the culture aspect which I think is a travesty as some long-running series are actually ingrained in culture. Actually some individual titles were so important I'd argue they're cultural icons of our day as well.
:)
Nicely done.
Transcribe pls?

And I never did hear back from them when I emailed about putting subtitles on their videos.. Wankers.
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ovoon: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2653-Piracy
I think he hit this one right on the money.
Lol at Santa Pirate...Y'argh,,,,:D
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orcishgamer: I think they touched on some important issues, they weren't spot on on everything though. They also ignored the culture aspect which I think is a travesty as some long-running series are actually ingrained in culture. Actually some individual titles were so important I'd argue they're cultural icons of our day as well.
Could you elaborate a little more on what you mean by the cultural aspect?
I like how the escapist advocates piracy for people who can't legally buy or import a(physical or DD) copy into or in their country(he says like people in mongolia for example, though this could also pertain to games in other countries like japanese RPGs not released in the US for sale on or offline), and they also seem to advocate abandonware of truly abandoned titles not available online of offline for sale(new or used) anymore.
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orcishgamer: I think they touched on some important issues, they weren't spot on on everything though. They also ignored the culture aspect which I think is a travesty as some long-running series are actually ingrained in culture. Actually some individual titles were so important I'd argue they're cultural icons of our day as well.
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Adokat: Could you elaborate a little more on what you mean by the cultural aspect?
Yeah, I'm pissed so if I make no sense sorry. Games like Diablo, StarCraft, Ultima, and the like are cultural. People have a right to participate in their culture, when you add to culture you don't get to take it back. I know people will joke "dude it's video games", well go to a museum with a Greek exhibit some day, it'll be full of stuff with huge penises on it. Somehow I don't think the Greeks would have thought those would ever be considered culture, but now they sit in a museum.

But culture is more than that, it's what you share with your fellowman. Just like discussing Sunday's football game is important to people so is discussing art that is mutually appreciated by the group with which you're interacting.

So when a group of people is excluded from Diablo 3 or something, aren't they being locked out of their own culture. Remember, culture is owned by the people (as a natural right), copyright ownership is granted to someone by those same people, there should be no question where the power is or which party is the more important one. Somehow we've got it completely backwards, though, and all for money. It's sick.

There should be no question that someone mixing up some music with a fanmade video some video game playthrough or parody is allowed, somehow these videos get pulled every day.

It'd be like telling you you couldn't write a story based on Beauty and the Beast. You clearly can, Disney did, they didn't invent it. But damn, copy Steamboat Willy's stupid mouse character and all hell breaks loose (Steamboat Willy was itself a blatant copy, you can google for the details).

So, when someone says, you can play a bunch of free games, that doesn't completely work for a "poor" person. I mean, you can argue all kinds of ways that they can maybe afford it, and maybe you're right, but it is true that if they can't discuss the story in ME2 with their buds as they're all playing it they are a bit poorer for it. It'd be like being unable to watch the big game (yeah I know sports events are often restricted, even so there's usually close to free ways to partake a bit, such as radio and news highlights, perhaps that's why Youtube rocks so much).

Er, I guess I'm not making any sense.
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orcishgamer: There should be no question that someone mixing up some music with a fanmade video some video game playthrough or parody is allowed, somehow these videos get pulled every day.

It'd be like telling you you couldn't write a story based on Beauty and the Beast. You clearly can, Disney did, they didn't invent it. But damn, copy Steamboat Willy's stupid mouse character and all hell breaks loose (Steamboat Willy was itself a blatant copy, you can google for the details).

So, when someone says, you can play a bunch of free games, that doesn't completely work for a "poor" person. I mean, you can argue all kinds of ways that they can maybe afford it, and maybe you're right, but it is true that if they can't discuss the story in ME2 with their buds as they're all playing it they are a bit poorer for it. It'd be like being unable to watch the big game (yeah I know sports events are often restricted, even so there's usually close to free ways to partake a bit, such as radio and news highlights, perhaps that's why Youtube rocks so much).

Er, I guess I'm not making any sense.
No you're making good sense actually. Like with companies using ripped off stuff to make their own IP off of, then getting upset when someone uses part of it for fair use reasons on Youtube/etc for a music video or something.

Also yeah, that they said that poor people can game just fine for free is hilarious as mainly only free MMos and meh level singleplayer flash/etc games are free for the most part and if not many play them and instead play ME2/SC2/etc then yeah it can be pretty hard for the two parties to relate culturally or socially.......and they didnt think either: What if a person with a console got it as a gift from a relative or friend, or in some contest, and it didn't come with many games if any at all? And what if said people can't use the internet because they don't have it or a fast enough one to download massive demos? Those people are then screwed imo.
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orcishgamer: Er, I guess I'm not making any sense.
You make interesting points... I don't really agree with them, but they were interesting. I think my main issue with it would be that video games are not an essential piece of culture because they don't really impact our lives enough. Maybe Modern Warfare or World of Warcraft could be considered that, but then with a limited number of titles the ability to afford them goes way up.

There is certainly value in humans feeling they belong though, that they are part of modern, popular society. I just don't think video games are needed for that in any real way.
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orcishgamer: Er, I guess I'm not making any sense.
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StingingVelvet: You make interesting points... I don't really agree with them, but they were interesting. I think my main issue with it would be that video games are not an essential piece of culture because they don't really impact our lives enough. Maybe Modern Warfare or World of Warcraft could be considered that, but then with a limited number of titles the ability to afford them goes way up.

There is certainly value in humans feeling they belong though, that they are part of modern, popular society. I just don't think video games are needed for that in any real way.
Video games not part of our culture? But i'll wager you think movies and music are.......that's such a silly notion I won't even go into detail on it.

Just because games are considered a leisure activity and mostly one pursued by those with little "culture" to them appreciate more "mature" things like opera/etc doesn't mean games aren't cultural or an impact on people's lives. If enough people fondly remember a game or make/spout memes around the net enough on a particular game than such IS cultural......of course this is just a smattering of why I think games are and can be considered cultural and shows how they have impact on major parts of our society.
Did seeing Shakespeare affect those people? I mean poor people sat in the peanut gallery and jeered at the actors (thus the phrase "Quiet in the peanut gallery!"). Culture is just the experiences that we share with others. Video games easily qualify in my book. Who doesn't think Link or Mario are iconic? What about Samus Aran? What about a story the likes of Shadows of the Colossus? Sure some games are carp and certainly some art in general is crap.

Also, another point, and this is why I hate activation, Steam, and the like. Putting an expiration date on culture is wrong and flies in the face of the very purpose of copyright.
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GameRager: Video games not part of our culture? But i'll wager you think movies and music are.......that's such a silly notion I won't even go into detail on it.
Try not to twist what I say to fit your counterargument and also assume things I would say, it's kind of annoying.

I would say the same for movies, very few are essential aspects of culture that are needed for a human being to feel like he/she belongs in society. You could make a case for something like Avatar, but not much else. Same with TV shows, you could make a case for something like American Idol but not much else. Even these mega-popular shows and movies are not essential for most people though, it kind of depends on your lifestyle priorities. People make a big deal about 30 million people watching American Idol, but that's less than 10% of our population and that's just the US.

In the days of books and theater the options and availability of cultural items were much more limited, therefore reading something like Huckleberry Finn was much more necessary to take part in modern society. Shakespeare at the Globe was the only game in town, really. Today the options are so wide, from mainstream to niche and everything in between, and the availability of all these varied items so great, that the same arguments don't really apply.
It belongs in a museum!!
....

I mean.
Old games should be preserved i think, both from a cultural and an artistic perspective.

The problem with videogames is, is that the physical hardware will eventually die.
Thats why I argue emulation is important, and shouldn't really be hindered, (well it can for current consoles, but pre-gen ones should be provided some slack).

I think its our responsibility as gamer to not only preserve out collection, (like art collectors! HA!), but to ensure that there are no shortages of copies.

The old obscure titles of the past could make the masterpiece of the future!

I don't mind re-releases or remakes, so long as they are affordable and easily accessable to the general public, (considerably cheaper than normal titles if not many changes have been made).

As for piracy in general, I think theres a lot of over-reaction.
I use to pirate stuff, but I only got £20 pocket money when I was a kid.
(try to keep up with your friends with that! HA!)
Once I got a job though, I didn't need to.
Plus online shopping, and paypal, and GOG, and digital distributors like Steam cut down so many other boundaries, (needing to travel, production shortages, high retail markup).

As a student of business, I think the only way to beat piracy, is to make your product attractive enough, and easy enough to get, that people will want to get it.

Low price, or a retail release that has something extra, (extra DLC, physical goodies like keychains, artbooks, OSTs ect).

That is why I LOVE GOG!! :D
Post edited January 21, 2011 by RetroVortex
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orcishgamer: Also, another point, and this is why I hate activation, Steam, and the like. Putting an expiration date on culture is wrong and flies in the face of the very purpose of copyright.
I agree with that completely.

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RetroVortex: The problem with videogames is, is that the physical hardware will eventually die.
Thats why I argue emulation is important, and shouldn't really be hindered.
Completely agree with this too.

The problem is that gamers as a whole don't really appreciate history, they don't really play old games. We do, and others do of course, but on average gamers are always ready to move on to the next thing, to forget the old and to get with the new. There is no sense of history and respect for old games in this medium, which is a shame.