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For the few who still backup anything offline, I stumbled across this interesting article:
https://www.devroom.io/2020/02/28/building-a-diy-home-server-with-freenas/

Discussing building a home NAS. Have been thinking about doing that for some time, but maybe a rack system in the shed or something. It also links to a reddit group on data hoarding:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/

Which seems to have lots of information on software and hardware for backup and storage. Haven’t had time to go through, but the first page of topics was interesting.
Yeah good read... but at least in my case I need to access my GOG game installers quite rarely, while that setup seems to be geared for a network drive that is readily always available from other computers.

The only times I need, and want, to connect my GOG installer archive disk when I run gogrepo to get any new updates or games to my archive, like every two months or so, and whenever I need to install one of my GOG games.

So in my case a big enough 2.5" USB-powered external HDD is still the easiest and most cost-effective solution. However, such "always-online" NAS system might still be useful for some other data that I feel I need to access often from several PCs... and in a way I already have that with my Raspberry Pi4 which is always online and has a 2TB HDD. I don't have any special NAS software or setup there.
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timppu: Yeah good read... but at least in my case I need to access my GOG game installers quite rarely, while that setup seems to be geared for a network drive that is readily always available from other computers.

The only times I need, and want, to connect my GOG installer archive disk when I run gogrepo to get any new updates or games to my archive, like every two months or so, and whenever I need to install one of my GOG games.

So in my case a big enough 2.5" USB-powered external HDD is still the easiest and most cost-effective solution. However, such "always-online" NAS system might still be useful for some other data that I feel I need to access often from several PCs... and in a way I already have that with my Raspberry Pi4 which is always online and has a 2TB HDD. I don't have any special NAS software or setup there.
Yes, true. NAS and backup are different things. I do need to share books, vids, music, pics etc. So some sort of NAS portal, although I have a qnap for that. Was thinking more along the lines of racks of hdds. 6-8tb drives seem to be the sweet spot at the moment with price and size, but if you want 5 duplicated, general DAS will become more fiddly. Terramaster D5-500 (not the 2+3 c one, the raid 0,1,5 one) is excellent, I have three, but will need to upgrade at some point in the future and large racks of storage is tempting :o)

Anyways, other useful software:
Freefilesync
Freenas
Any others?
I'd like to have a NAS and/or DAS, but I've found them not necessary enough to justify the expense.
- My main PC has 3 HDDs (+SSD) - Backup: an 8TB usb drive + a few a smaller offline 2.5" drives.
- HTPC (Nvidia Shield) has 3 usb drives connected - Backup: 12 TB usb drive connected to the main PC (network transfer)
(- offline studio laptop + 2TB usb backup)

Maybe I'd find a NAS more useful if I had more than one "main PC". But still, network sharing works well enough....
I read/heard somewhere that when a NAS (like Synology, QSNAP, ...) fails, the hard drives (in RAID) inside can't be accessed in another system (regular PC/OS). I haven't really researched the details...

I have an old laptop that doesn't get used much - It's a failsafe computer and sometimes I use it to watch movies and series (via Shield/Emby) when the TV is occupied.

Edit: the backup software I use is SyncBackPro. It's easy enough, but also has endless options/configuration settings.
Post edited September 05, 2020 by teceem
I have a two bay Synology NAS, with two 2 Tb Samsung hdds mirrored, that power right down.
It was the recommended way to go by a NAS mad friend of mine, who last I heard runs a 10 bay NAS full of 6 TB drives.

I ran with that for a while, then pretty much gave up on it, because in the end I felt the logic did not stack up. It might if I was a business with the money to cycle in new drives regularly, and especially had a duplicate NAS stored off-site.

Instead, I now use multiple portable drives, a mix of powered and smaller non-powered. I spread the love (or data), as they say. My standard practice is to keep at least 3 copies of data I really care about, each on separate physical drives.

Many years ago, I was a user of SyncBack, but now just stick to TeraCopy and semi-manual use with a few helper programs I have coded. Been happily doing that for a few years now.

I'm also anal when it comes to taking care of my drives. I've read enough and experienced enough to know you shouldn't believe all the hype of drive manufacturers. One of the programs I use, is called TeraCopy Timer, which allows rest periods for a specified time period, with big jobs or jobs with lots of small files. The aim being to reduce how hot the drives get. This of course, is with mechanical drives, not SSD.

So anyway, as I have stated elsewhere, I keep 4 separate copies of my game files, spread over many physical hard drives, stored in different locations. No doubt that is over the top, but because I can, I do ... call it insurance. I've also got 3 kids, who I am sure will appreciate one day, that they inherit a ready made copy each, and one master backup.
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Timboli: So anyway, as I have stated elsewhere, I keep 4 separate copies of my game files, spread over many physical hard drives, stored in different locations. No doubt that is over the top, but because I can, I do ... call it insurance. I've also got 3 kids, who I am sure will appreciate one day, that they inherit a ready made copy each, and one master backup.
You live in Australia... here in Europe, we call those "different locations" different countries! :-P
Just kidding! ;-)
I know offsite backups are a good idea (in case of fire), but I don't have friends or family living nearby. I've been thinking of (encrypted) cloud storage for my pictures - but 100 GB (atm) can be pretty expensive, monthly.

My backup system is doubling the data. (Some of it is 3x, on smaller 2,5" drives but not all of it) I know 3x or 4x is better, but 8TB and more drives aren't exactly cheap. Still, 2 drives failing at the same time isn't a very likely event.

I've noticed in another topic that backup is still an 'obscure' subject. Most people replying were talking about local storage (of online files).
Post edited September 05, 2020 by teceem
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teceem: I'd like to have a NAS and/or DAS, but I've found them not necessary enough to justify the expense.
- My main PC has 3 HDDs (+SSD) - Backup: an 8TB usb drive + a few a smaller offline 2.5" drives.
- HTPC (Nvidia Shield) has 3 usb drives connected - Backup: 12 TB usb drive connected to the main PC (network transfer)
(- offline studio laptop + 2TB usb backup)

Maybe I'd find a NAS more useful if I had more than one "main PC". But still, network sharing works well enough....
I read/heard somewhere that when a NAS (like Synology, QSNAP, ...) fails, the hard drives (in RAID) inside can't be accessed in another system (regular PC/OS). I haven't really researched the details...

I have an old laptop that doesn't get used much - It's a failsafe computer and sometimes I use it to watch movies and series (via Shield/Emby) when the TV is occupied.

Edit: the backup software I use is SyncBackPro. It's easy enough, but also has endless options/configuration settings.
Well, DAS are necessary. I have 3 8tbs in the main machine, striped. This gets backed up often to a raid 5 days on the desk. I then have two periodic (not regular) other DAS one on site, one offsite. I have some 15 tb I sync across these. And some other externals. It’s fine having a one disk, but you would want 3 or more copies of it. The raid just provides extra layer of confidence.

In terms of NAS, yes, only if you need it. I am often abroad and my partner too so access to things is useful. But for one or two machines locally it’s just an expense better used on other things.
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Timboli: I have a two bay Synology NAS, with two 2 Tb Samsung hdds mirrored, that power right down.
It was the recommended way to go by a NAS mad friend of mine, who last I heard runs a 10 bay NAS full of 6 TB drives.

I ran with that for a while, then pretty much gave up on it, because in the end I felt the logic did not stack up. It might if I was a business with the money to cycle in new drives regularly, and especially had a duplicate NAS stored off-site.

Instead, I now use multiple portable drives, a mix of powered and smaller non-powered. I spread the love (or data), as they say. My standard practice is to keep at least 3 copies of data I really care about, each on separate physical drives.

Many years ago, I was a user of SyncBack, but now just stick to TeraCopy and semi-manual use with a few helper programs I have coded. Been happily doing that for a few years now.

I'm also anal when it comes to taking care of my drives. I've read enough and experienced enough to know you shouldn't believe all the hype of drive manufacturers. One of the programs I use, is called TeraCopy Timer, which allows rest periods for a specified time period, with big jobs or jobs with lots of small files. The aim being to reduce how hot the drives get. This of course, is with mechanical drives, not SSD.

So anyway, as I have stated elsewhere, I keep 4 separate copies of my game files, spread over many physical hard drives, stored in different locations. No doubt that is over the top, but because I can, I do ... call it insurance. I've also got 3 kids, who I am sure will appreciate one day, that they inherit a ready made copy each, and one master backup.
Yeah, I use teracopy with file check on. It’s great. For my backups though I use freefilesync as the amount of data it’s just easier to sync across them all (none are plugged n all at once though, only 2 at a time).
By the time your kids inherit google will own all your data anyways :o)
Post edited September 05, 2020 by nightcraw1er.488
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teceem: Still, 2 drives failing at the same time isn't a very likely event.
It may seem like an unlikely event, but it does happen, and just the act of rebuilding a drive's worth of files, might put it in jeopardy, especially as it may have likely had the exact same usage and treatment ... might even be the same brand and version. Could be utterly devastating if it did happen ... depending on other factors of course.

I like to set and forget.
I'd also like to rebuild a drive's worth at my leisure, and not in a hurry because I only have one copy standing by.

I have a large game collection though, so that dictates my options. It would take a good long while to safely restore, and certainly take an age to re-download.
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nightcraw1er.488: By the time your kids inherit google will own all your data anyways :o)
Not in my lifetime. I avoid Google as much as I can.
In fact, the only time we interact, that I am aware of, is when I watch youTube ... and maybe when I have to leave tracking on for some websites.
Duck Duck Go is my search engine of choice, been that way a few years now. I also block adverts.
Post edited September 05, 2020 by Timboli
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teceem: I read/heard somewhere that when a NAS (like Synology, QSNAP, ...) fails, the hard drives (in RAID) inside can't be accessed in another system (regular PC/OS). I haven't really researched the details...
I'm fairly sure that if the NAS formats the drives as EXT4, then in the event the NAS unit (not the drives) fails, you can emergency mount them in a live-boot Linux distro (eg, Ubuntu or LInux Mint) to copy them onto another drive. Obviously Windows has no native EXT4 support. There are 3rd party utilities out there that add a driver that can read EXT4 file systems, though from what I've read they are less advisable if you want to return a drive that was part of a RAID set into a new NAS as Windows may perform some background "maintenance" or write "System Volume Information" files that can could break a mirror set, so it's best to use a Linux distro with native EXT4 support for the "cleanest" emergency access.
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teceem: I read/heard somewhere that when a NAS (like Synology, QSNAP, ...) fails, the hard drives (in RAID) inside can't be accessed in another system (regular PC/OS). I haven't really researched the details...
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AB2012: I'm fairly sure that if the NAS formats the drives as EXT4, then in the event the NAS unit (not the drives) fails, you can emergency mount them in a live-boot Linux distro (eg, Ubuntu or LInux Mint) to copy them onto another drive. Obviously Windows has no native EXT4 support. There are 3rd party utilities out there that add a driver that can read EXT4 file systems, though from what I've read they are less advisable if you want to return a drive that was part of a RAID set into a new NAS as Windows may perform some background "maintenance" or write "System Volume Information" files that can could break a mirror set, so it's best to use a Linux distro with native EXT4 support for the "cleanest" emergency access.
Various NAS software will use various file systems, some may even be prioretary (although that is rather rare) and it has nothing to do with what system they run on.
Most off-the-shelf NAS run some *NIX derivative (usually some Linux with modifications, likely obscenely out-of-date kernel, etc).

You should REALLY NOT *EVER* mount ANY ext4 drive under Windows (especially 10) under any circumstances. Let alone drive from RAID array.
It WILL mess with the drive. And it's almost 100% certain it will write SOMETHING. Which given 1.General shitty and incomplete implementation of those Windows tools 2.That drive in question would be front an array... well... you would be in for a hard time.
Just don't do it.
You don't cut corners in regard to backup drives unless you perceive the backup completely worthless.

Should your NAS mobo fail (some of Synology fail from time to time afaik, I don't know how about others, I personally wouldn't use off-the-shelf one anyway) mount it under some *NIX derivative (if you are new to these systems then better don't touch BSD and basically anything apart from Linux).
And for the love of God, MOUNT IT READ ONLY.

Or better yet. Get yourself a BIGGER drive (it absolutely HAS TO BE larger capacity than TOTAL [not just used] capacity of the rescued drive) and make sector-by-sector disc image of the drive in question and work on the image (mount it as a loop device, also, to save yourself pain 1.Mount it read only 2.Work on a COPY of the image, NOT on the original image file).
To make image I would suggest ddrescue (for a number of reasons), NOT plain DD (unless you perfectly know what you are doing).

Obviously it goes without saying that:
1.These tools (and Linux tools in general) will not hold you by hand and walk you through the process with multiple confirmations.
No. Tools on Linux are made with assumption that A.You understand what you are doing B.The command you confirm is the one you want to run (so ALWAYS check multiple times that your syntax is correct BEFORE confirming ANYTHING).
2.These tools can do a whole lot of things to drives, not just read, if you f up syntax in any way (basically all tools have case sensitive syntax, and Linux does no spellchecking of the syntax) you WILL regret it (you can for example nuke all your drives in the computer).
So ALWAYS make sure that the command you are about to use is correct.

It is also notable to mention that if you want to mount RAID volume then it is going to take bigger effort than mounting "normal" (non array) drive.

This all is obviously in regards of just failed mobo of NAS and NOT the drive itself.
It is possible to recover from failed drive but I don't feel like teaching you all IT forensics here now.
It's very complex subject to say the least.

As for the tools.
When I still used Windows I never used all those popular petty tools so I don't know those generally.
I would say:
1.Checksum EVERYTHING (use sha512), save checksums in safe place (checksum ORIGINAL files btw, NOT "all in one archive of all my games")
2.Total Commander (on NON STANDARD SETTINGS) copies with it's own method not relying on explorer, it's reliable, but you should always do checksum things after copying regardless.

As for Linux:
There is mountains of tools and it's up to personal preference.

Oh, and one more thing:
Be sure to be sane and use fairly NEW kernel / tools versions when mounting the drives.
The ext4 for example is being constantly worked on, improved, and gets added functionality.
If for example ext4 on your drive is version X+10 then some functionality of it will not work with tools of version X+4 (older, those are examples and not actual naming conventions btw).

Obviously if you have array and one of the drives dies you CAN connect it to Linux computer and replicate mirror on a new drive (from the working drive) but it takes knowledge to do so (obviously).

Generally speaking if you can afford it it's better to run DIY NAS made from computer.
That way you have MUCH better control and capabilities and less pain in case of troubleshooting.