That's not how it happened yogs unless he did not record vote counts as they happened. Nacho was on dess not too much longer after I was, which means that brasas actually voted dess somewhat early and stayed on when the wagon grew and when you guys protested munching a wolf day one by deciding a no lynch was the better route. He didn't jump on the wagon at deadline.

In saying that brasas ran interference for the lynch and that being your only case you're also missing people like cristi and stanari who did also run interference on dess and who in one case didn't vote dess and the other actually did jump on at the end of day when we were headed toward a no lynch.

You're right, I'd missed that. That is ...confusing.

It matters to the extent it makes it hard to predict the impact of future votes.

Listen, if you want to vote me for being right about voting for scum, go right ahead and place that vote. I'd prefer not to go in circles anymore. I saw what I saw and I voted how I voted and I guess that's all you've got.

Go ahead and lynch me for making cases against wolves.

I 100% know the answer to this question. Is your goal here to get the answer, or just to pressure yogs to see if he knows the answer?

Well, it must be. Because I don't know what you're going for. You're digging for layers of innuendo that just aren't there.

I saw what I saw, I made my case against Brasas - stylistically idiosyncratic though it was - and placed my vote. I didn't read Stanari or cristi as strongly defending Dessimu. I did read Brasas that way. So I voted.

Nobody seemed to want him, and I was OK with a Lift lynch as well, so changed my vote.

That's really all there is.

@Yogs - in the nicest possible way I can ask, can you make your Brasas case? I actually agree with you and atm don't intend to vote you, but surely you had some sort of evidence/thoughts in mind when you said brasas was distracting?


Do you perceive yourself having towncred or not, at least relative to the two others in line to potentially claim?


Given that you have notes, please, elaborate. What in your notes gives cristi the highest probability of SK/wolf?

I'm not even trying to defend her, I'm just not clear where your progression is to reach this read.

Dude, you know me. C'mon. What level of complexity are you looking for here?

*sigh*

Brasas is a very very smart guy. He has an ability to sift through detail that certainly surpasses my own. He's observed many games and demonstrated just in observer chats an ability to sort through the mud and make connections. I've begged him to play in the past because it's clear he has exactly what it takes to be a good player.

But he's still new.

And he drew scum.

And it was clear to me he was deliberately trying to derail a wagon on Dessimu. Call it feeling, call it tone, call it psychic hoopie doopie, but whatever steps a Townie would take to counter a wagon on what he felt was a fellow Townie... I just knew he went one step too far.

ISO him yourself. Ctl+F for "dess" and read over it. I'm not quoting it all.

I will never claim to be the most successful at convincing others to follow my lead. As Town, I operate too much on feel and too little on granular detail. This is not a secret. Hence the myriad of butt-kissing jokes when I end up being right but wasn't able to effectively articulate why. Or, at least, not to any other Town's satisfaction.

Lol - I was actually just writing an EBWOP. I made that post sitting on page 37 and did hit refresh, but didn't see p.38.

But I appreciate your answer here. ;)

So then what's your bleedin' point?!?

@all - I've changed my mind on claim order. cristi can claim 2nd/3rd, but if we're voting on this I'd much prefer to see stan or nacho claim first. tyvm.

Heh, I was going to ask you nicely to make a case, but that was prior to seeing post 1852 at which point I probably wouldn't have bothered asking.

But I am actually quite comforted by 1854. Thanks. :) Insane as it is, I don't think I'll vote yogs today.


FWIW, here was my initial response to Tammy's question to yogs about brasas that I wrote an hourish ago but did not post until yogs had responded more:

" I think yogs overstated his case slightly, but I think you miss key mechanics of the EOD. Go back and look at cristi's EOD sequence (or mine) again.

TLDR version - At the time brasas got on (#1239, Sept 22), his vote made it 4 Dess / 6 babs. He also repeatedly made the pitch that people not on either of the main wagons get on one, and to my eyes was noncommittal on why others should choose dess over babs. If anything, he put his finger on the scale against others joining the dess lynch "Ho hum, Dess is my second towniest read!" (after bler, who I hear is both awesome and totally townie).

Why is he voting his 2nd towniest pick on the shorter wagon over his not-2nd towniest pick with a longer wagon? PR, perhaps. No one pressed him.

If he was assuming 8 to lynch (I was - 15 players at that point), statistically, that wins him solid distancing while still making it more likely babs will go down then dess. It's win/win. He's embedded enough that he looks townie if Dess flips scum, but still, all things being equal with the temperature in the room, a reasonable bet babs is the lynch instead.

In that same post he also suggests votes on RW move off. If RW/Dess flip town, Brasas’ play looks quite town for laying out a pragmatic solution to EOD stagnation. But they didn't. Both of them. The result then looks pretty curious if you look closer.

That’s a “strong” vote, but with a weak-ass reason, and a concomitant push that’s as/more liable to go away from the Dess wagon than toward it.

In terms of other distancing, I noted a few things. I don't have my dess notes here at work, but the biggest imo was when Stan first proposed a Dess wagon as an alternative to the gamestate in 1092, brasas was very critical. I think there were a few other points as well.

So while I'm disappointed yogs didn't actually lay out a case, what he's saying about brasas/dess is fundamentally true imo.

Don't lose sight of that just because two of the votes ahead of Brasas when he joined that wagon later bailed."

Eh EBWOP - one thing wrong. That's the problem with doing this sans notes skimming to try to reconstruct memories.

The comment about derp town read was babark, about 100 posts prior to his vote on Dess.

That said, in his vote post and subsequent he doesn't make any push for others to vote Dess, he just says he's town reading babs so he's not changing wagons himself. I was correct to that extent.

Subsequent to his vote (1239), he only makes 2 more posts in D1 (1294, 1319). He does make a comment suggesting that maj may not be in effect and not to leave wagons, but it's not targeted at anyone in particular and at least for me at the time it definitely got lost in the noise.

Yeah that's the kind of thing I'd have liked to have seen from Yogs. Him throwing out oh well he voted when it was obvious we were going to no lynch isn't solid because that's not really the tale the vote counts tell. (Putting his vote there when it looked like babark was going to be lynched I'd have bought.)

But like he could very easily just explain himself and what he saw instead of accusing me of wanting to vote him because he was right about wolves. For one claiming credit for dessimu doesn't cut it when he only vote him for a little while and then decided he'd rather no lynch. Yeah he was right on Brasas, but he was fine dropping it to move onto Lift, yes also a wolf.

But he apparently did not notice at all that both Cristi and Stanari defended Dess, and in one case did actually do what he accused Brasas of doing - voting only when it looked like we were going to no lynch.

So, what I'm trying to get at is why Brasas? Why did Brasas catch his notice in that situation and not the other two, especially when he had an early scum read on Stanari.

This isn't about agreeing or denying that Brasas did what Yogsloth claimed he did. Brasas was scum. I'm trying to figure out Yogsloth and his motivation. Was this a bit of distancing? If we're looking at multiple teams, then light distancing and jumping to another wagon that's more likely to go through is very common for scum. Heck even if we're not talking multiple teams that's also a perfectly fine scum strategy.

Or does this come from town that just missed or dismissed the others who also ran interference? Him talking about his expectations from Brasas do help with that regard. That makes sense.

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Pretty much.

Stanari I was all over Day 1 but at that time I felt like she'd cleared herself in other ways - or at least to the point where I wasn't focused on her anymore. cristi just didn't ping me the way Brasas did.

I get that funny little feeling and I go for it.

And yogs, I'm not trying to lynch you. I'm trying to read you. I have absolutely no idea who I suspect right now. Pretty much everyone left I've had decent enough feelings or town read for one reason or another, but the game's still going which means at least one of you I'm wrong on. I'm also reconsidering things about the gamestate I did not believe yesterday and I'm trying figure that out.

I'm asking you questions because I'm trying to get a read on you, not lynch you or try to trick you.