FWIW, I think I'm inclined to take yogs off the table as an option for me today. Seeing how he fits as town a bit better over time both in terms of what he has been doing and what he's been seeing.

And glad the barn didn't fall on him. Lulz.

Trouble is at this point the only people who look more non-town to me than town are Lift and kinda babs. But I can't make any case at all for scum!babs in terms of where he'd actually fit with wolves, and I do believe his claim is either true or closely based on true.

My view of the game is that the most likely scenario is 2 wolves left (Lift + towny-DeepwolfY), and if the game is still afoot when that's resolved, then reevaluate.

I am a vampire and need to be invited along. Or something.

:(

I tried. Specifically.

Are you actually surprised by her absence, or was that the outcome you were expecting?

As noted previously, I kinda assumed that was beyond even your mighty powers.

Let's just f***'n kill somebody.

Vote Lifthrasil

Ladies and gentlemen! Step right up!

Come witness the towniest towny to ever town a town!

What kind of demonic barn do you have anyway????

You think the barn brainwashed yogs into voting Lift somehow? Like whoever approaches my barn is compelled to vote for the same person as me if they survive the experience?

It's a barn full of tea, which, as he noted he's not that interested in. If it were a barn full of tea teas he might have stuck around longer. You know, to get a better feel for the layout.

On D1 I was town reading you so early I kinda stopped reading your arguments to try and focus on people I was less certain of, which was a mistake, since you catch quite a bit that I miss and probably more than me. I'm ranking cristi as likelier to be town for slightly different reasons though also in relation to dess.

In 294 Dess throws light shade on cristi over her being the first to point out something wolf related (full moon?) and he makes the point that "maybe she has inside knowledge" even though like half of us have made jokes about werewolves at that point. Heck, trent and Wyrm had even done a bit about werewolephants 100 posts earlier.

Notable to me in that that was Dess' first post after my push on cristi. Cristi shows up, impresses and I back off and most people come to the conclusion that looks townie. The next time I note Dess mentioning her (556) he calls her townie:

"• Cristigale always looks towny. At least for me. I think there are a few certain things she does when being mafia, but I won't tell those and I don't see them either. She makes strong insights on her own for her own. So, towny. "

So she always looks towny, except when she mentions something about the flavor that like, everyone has already talked about in some regard. And she's not doing the thing or things that she does when she's mafia, which we won't mention cuz stuff. Cool.


Since we're not going to know til post game I'm not sure it makes much practical difference, but my sense is on Ix/Fox he was just looking for a path of low resistance, much like with cristi he was willing to make a light feint behind someone else's bigger push, and then had her as total town, and always towny!, later when suggesting otherwise might have drawn questions.

In the post you mention (622) he still insisted there was a case for Fox (and at the time wagons were 3 each for Ix/Fox I believe), just not the "slightly suspicious" one Ix was making. 3 Dess posts (and one modkill) later, Dess is voting Ix. I tend to think it more likely he wasn't sitting on a teammate's wagon and defending it from Ix as much as laying out a casual path to change wagons if needed without too raising eyebrows.

Anyway, I'd be a little careful of assuming cristi couldn't be deep wolf on that premise, as she's savvy and patient, but I agree I think she's not very likely to be.

*EBWOP - fwiw, that's not actually my whole case for pushing cristi to the townier side, just the part that relates to the Fox question.

Ok, I see where this is going. Wagon on Lift, no real examination of others, lots of posts with little content, focus on flavor despite having significant facts to go on (votes, flips, progressions)... you all are itching to get to your scum chats or something? I guess that means they're night only and the scum teams were larger(ish)... Whatever... between lynch and kills I hope to see three dead wolves tomorrow morning. And if it's not clear by what I posted earlier, Lift is not on my no go list, far from it. Just I'd like to reread him. Just I'm feeling a bit why bother?

Anyway, from the bottom.

Hindsight bias is a bitch. Dess on Cristi could be distancing or it could be shade. And neither clears her in multiball.

Whatevs, I better focus and get to voting Nacho.

Bler... Bler never changes... :P

Well, she must be growing the good stuff somewhere indeed...

Well, I almost thought we had a whole page of nothing burger... hurrah, I was wrong(ish)...

I want to say both and just let you stew on it. But let's expand just a bit. On what should be obvious...

Of course I don't believe I'm scum.
Of course I do believe Yogs is a threat.

I mean, I don't get it Bler. Sure he is fun, but he's always got teeth, if you know what I mean. His smile is true, but why he is smiling can be anything. Is he laughing with you, or at you? Oh what big teeth you have grandma Yogs...

By the way, there's intent and there are consequences. At some point intent becomes irrelevant.

I'm not the town witch with the power to make wolves vanish into thin air. /sarc I replied to Nacho twice when he pinged me. There's something else I noticed related to Dess which given your earlier comments I expect you will not find meaningful. Or you will, then you won't, then you will...

You got to be pulling my leg if you believe or think I believe getting Yogs lynched would be easier than Nacho. Yogs pockets people and they don't even notice. At least Tammy seems to have given wolf Nacho some thought, although for very different reasons he is pinging me.

Beats me if I know, but I'm gonna do what I think I should and believe is best. I do wonder why I bother sometimes.

rolleyes... and I don't even know what that meant...

I actually laughed when I read this. You're good...

Makes one forget this is a lynch mob, not a court of law. Heh?

Well, this page is certainly more interesting reading at least. Not much to reply / add to though...

Tammy, I'm just trying to get to know you better. For future calibration, particularly regarding Nacho reading. I was not asking about the no lynch part, I got that already. But you mentioned you considered moving to someone else than Dess? Was it just RW? I assumed yes but wanted to ask, and somewhat surprised I was misunderstood as just insisting on the no lynch angle.


OK, next post I vote.

Ok, so I am wondering to post my notes dump or not. In the interest of spam mitigation (and being a tad ashamed) I'll hold on I guess. Will post if anyone wants to see the whole mess though... Here are the conclusions I wrote a few days ago preparing for this. I guess I should point out I did manage to process most of the Wyrm / Nacho reread before daybreak, but really my belief this is multiball only makes me think this is a low downside push:

The lurker no lurker thing is scummy, should push on that. The personal stuff on mischaracterizing me is weird, I don’t like it – duh, but still. And the Wyrm interactions reinforce my ww or tt. Since Wyrm flipped, it would have to be tt, but with Wyrm knowing. And Wyrm was actually vanilla. So more like trying to pocket Wyrm in a weird way?

So some of this depends on my reread of Wyrm as well. Some of it I can be convinced is me tunneling, but I really find the way he interacted / reacted to me scummy. And what really convinced me to go for it (apart from seeing some validation on wolf/Nacho from Tammy - because it is discouraging that no one else seems to see anything) is related to Dess's flip as Bler guessed.

PS: At least Yogs dismissing my suspicions since early on is making more sense...

1 - interactions with me

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post221
P221 - ... This is also the post that tripped me up I guess, for one I’m lost in the middle of it, and I replied P284
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post284

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post278
P278 will ask me something, asks P285 I answer 292

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post500
P500 questioning me, right after coming to same conclusion I had earlier (Bler is this what you meant?) + mischaracterizing me as voting no lynch, then defends lists

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post504
P504 questioning me again – this fucker is looking better than I thought… opposite of what I felt then and posted on 532
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post532

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post1018
P1018 Nacho being Nacho
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post1019

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post1040
P1040 Your interpretation of Stanari as the definitive counter wagon when she had all of one vote at the time is a bit out of touch with reality.

In summary, he flat out lies about me jumping on Stan when her wagon was only one. And never even mentions that again. Not even a oopsie. Already back when he had completely ignored me when I called him out for misrepping me. So it's a pattern.

2 - messing Wyrm

Too much to link on this. I didn't see their interactions being W|T. But T|T was kinda conditional on the mason bullshit being true. So Wyrm's flip makes W|W impossible and makes me lean on the wolf|Nacho direction. Kinda pocketing Wyrm, kinda creating a presence on the thread I guess, to offset the lurkiness.

3 - voting dess

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post275
P275 against lurker lynch ...
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post305
P305 against lurker lynch, pushes Lift
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post485
P485 countering wyrm aggressively again, going around lurker lynch
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post491
P491 going all in on do not lynch lurkers

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post1275
P1275 the Tammy stuff starts, votes Dess for lurking kind of? Contradicts 491?

So this to me is the more interesting. After numerous defenses of not lynching lurkers, better alternatives yadah yadah (which are kinda convenient for his own lurkiness btw) he moves to Dess late as heck, and for basically lurking. The biggest hole here is he can just define lurker to mean whatever he wants. And I admit to still being confused what was scummy about Dess, though hindsight bias is helping stuff surface now and I probably just was not paying him enough attention.

But considering Nacho did not move from his own one person wagon when I tried to ask everyone for some voting discipline, and he just skated in way later... and it just screams busing to me.


I think he's scum. It's as simple as that. Or rather it's not so simple because my head is not there, but my gut sure is.
Vote Nacho

As should be obvious what I want from Nacho is two fold: a consistent philosophy on lynching lurkers, and a more indepth explanation why he voted Dess when he did. But I won't be surprised if no one else gives a fuck, so, like, don't expect me to? I'll be ok to move to Lift and see what happens. Also easier to crack jokes with Yogs and Bler you know...scum hunting is sooo tiring.

I can't believe how long this took to post. This game is a freaking black hole...

If we have multiple scum teams, all sorts of possibilities open up. Brasas/babark/? was a thought I had when considering yogs' argument that Brasas was running interference for Dessi. I thought it was weak. On the other hand, if Brasas and babark are on a scum team, Brasas ran all sorts of interference (maybe too obvious) for babark. I also don't think the lack of counter claim for babark is all that telling. If scum!babark and town!doctor, should the doctor out himself on D1 to counter scum!babark when we know so little about the game? Quad's role may also play a factor.

The above scenario only flies if we have multiple teams. My current guess is we are dealing with a single team. If a single scum team, I believe babark is the doctor and Brasas is fairly strong town. Brasas could be deep-wolfing but I'd be looking at least 3-4 other players first.

I have no idea why yogs looks so town all of a sudden - could be town, but see no reason to think so. The jokes are fun but mean nothing in terms of alignment.

My vote is with Lift. In this setup, does anyone see a reason not to cast what would traditionally be a hammer vote?

Damn. Just lost a longer post to the GOG software

@Tammy: I didn't vote Dessimu because I didn't see his scumminess. Yog, however, appeared quite scummy or at least strange throughout the game. You might be right, however, about my suspicion of Stanari being mostly culture clash. I found her playstyle quite useless and strange.

@Nacho: yea. Not surprised here. You had your unfounded vote on me basically all day yesterday. Right from RVS through most of the Day. Now that there are some people pushing on me, you would of course use the chance to start a train on me. But I don't think that is town play. I think that is scum going for an easy target. With yog first playing coy and then going along. This basically confirms my suspicion about you not really scum hunting but just looking for an excuse to make town mislynch me. I wouldn't be surprised if the scum team would consist of Yog+Nacho+X.

@bler: Hm. Quad as a bodyguard might make sense. That could mean that scum went for babark, but Quad protected him. And as you noted, the presence of a bodyguard might make the presence of a doctor a bit less strictly necessary. So perhaps I am too sure of babark's towniness? Maybe. ... Not that that matters much at the moment, since you are going to lynch me anyhow.

@Stanari: and another unexplained vote. I really don't like your style!

Well, I like my theory of a yog+Nacho team. So lynching any of these two would be good for town. Let's start with
VOTE NACHOMAMMA
since in addition to being scummy he also was far too lurky in this game.

Now. To claim or not to claim? My role is no big one, i.e. something you will probably risk losing to a mislynch anyhow. And should I survive another night, it is more useful if scum doesn't know about it. So, do you want me to claim before you throw me to the wolves, or not?

Oh, and should you go through lynching me while I'm away: after seeing that I am town, please do me the favour and lynch yogs and nacho next. With these you will probably eliminate two remaining scum.

Now I'm back to bed (I have a flu at the moment). Good night!