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timppu: if, after the initial download and installation (and maybe running the game(s) at least once), the Steam game can be moved to a completely different PC with a pristine Windows installation(***), no Steam client installed, and no active internet connection. And the game (single-player) runs fine also on that other, internet-less, PC.
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Maighstir: And that, as far as I've understood, is the definition used for this list.
Then again, I am unsure how many test their entries by actually moving the files to a completely separate PC, which has a separate HW configuration, no Steam installation at all, no internet connection etc. Since many Steam games have 3rd party DRM, I am unsure what triggers them require re-authentication, especially the ones with installation caps depending on changing HW.

The original (second) message suggests that it is enough if you just move the files to another folder on the same PC, and run it from there without Steam (not even disabling the internet connection?). Does this really prove that e.g. possible SecuROM DRM is also nullified, and it doesn't try to re-authenticate itself (without you even realizing that it is doing that), and/or take one point out of the max installation caps like it would if it was really moved to another PC?

As seen with some later entries, many seem to have mistaken this a list of games which you can merely run without the Steam client.
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timppu: As seen with some later entries, many seem to have mistaken this a list of games which you can merely run without the Steam client.
Yes, not everyone manages to read the first post:
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bazilisek: Note that games with any third party DRM are disqualified from this list, even if they do not actually use CEG (such as C&C4 or Batman:AA).
Post edited August 19, 2013 by Maighstir
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timppu: As seen with some later entries, many seem to have mistaken this a list of games which you can merely run without the Steam client.
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Maighstir: Yes, not everyone manages to read the first post:
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bazilisek: Note that games with any third party DRM are disqualified from this list, even if they do not actually use CEG (such as C&C4 or Batman:AA).
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Maighstir:
The original list is not even updated anymore, so there's no bazilizek here anymore as a gatekeeper to disqualify any games with (hidden or visible) 3rd party DRM. We've already seen e.g. AOE3 reported as DRM-free in this thread (due to the flawed testing method defined by the OP), which I presume he would have caught if he had tested it _properly_ (ie. the way I just described, and which was certainly mentioned before as well by some others).
Post edited August 19, 2013 by timppu
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timppu: a gatekeeper
Indeed, someone needs to take over that role.
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Maighstir: But not denying access to downloaded games.

No, Steam cannot actually deny you access (reason: cracks), but they do try to if you hit the right (or wrong, depending on your viewpoint) trigger. GOG doesn't even try to. And therein lies the difference.
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anjohl: Lol, Steam most definitely CAN deny your access to your games. And GOG certainly DOES try to, as they reserve the right, and ability to delete your account without compensation or appeal, just as Steam reserves the right to block access to your account.
If you lose your GOG account, its no loss if you have the sense to back up your games and extra goodies, But loose you Steam account and you lose almost all of your games, so there is a HUGE difference.
Post edited August 19, 2013 by king_mosiah
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anjohl: Lol, Steam most definitely CAN deny your access to your games. And GOG certainly DOES try to, as they reserve the right, and ability to delete your account without compensation or appeal, just as Steam reserves the right to block access to your account.
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king_mosiah: If you lose your GOG account, its no loss if you have the sense to back up your games and extra goodies, But loose you Steam account and you lose almost all of your games, so there is a HUGE difference.
A difference in degree, but not in terms of a lack of DRM or not.
What is DRM-free is the installer (i.e. the game itself) not your access. GOG has to prevent everyone to download the setups, so they need user accounts with password. That's not a DRM.

When you have downloaded the setup, you're free to go. That's the "DRM-free" they mean.
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king_mosiah: If you lose your GOG account, its no loss if you have the sense to back up your games and extra goodies, But loose you Steam account and you lose almost all of your games, so there is a HUGE difference.
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anjohl: A difference in degree, but not in terms of a lack of DRM or not.
By your flawed logic, retail games always have DRM if you have to buy them from a retail store. After all, if the store is closed, you can't get the game in order to bring it home with you.

What DRM is referring to is that after you have obtained the game you bought (ie. brought it back home from the store, or downloaded the installer from GOG servers to your computer), whether it still has technical measures to control, and even change, your access to the game after that point (=obtaining the game). Steam has that power, as all the hoopla over the non-functional offline mode so painfully proves. GOG doesn't, GOG can't prevent me in any way accessing the games I have obtained from them.

If you just keep your GOG games on GOG servers and don't download them to your computer, that is similar to keeping your retail games at the store (instead of your home), even though you have paid for them already. In both cases you intentionally let the store you bought the game from keep control of the game. It is your decision, not DRM.
Post edited August 20, 2013 by timppu
Add Europa Universalis IV to the list. Tested it while exiting Steam on my PC, and even tested it on my work laptop in my workplace which obviously doesn't have Steam.
Incorrect. Part of what you are buying is the backup. All hard disc's fail, so you will one day need to redownload.
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anjohl: Incorrect. Part of what you are buying is the backup. All hard disc's fail, so you will one day need to redownload.
Games can be copied from one medium to another without ever touching the Internet.
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anjohl: Incorrect. Part of what you are buying is the backup. All hard disc's fail, so you will one day need to redownload.
If you are paying someone else to take care of your backups for you, you deserve to lose your backups. If you fear that your hard disk will eventually fail, use more than one hard disk, and keep refreshing them. If you rely on a 3d party to keep your data safe, your data is not safe, no matter what the 3rd party is.
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cw8: Add Europa Universalis IV to the list. Tested it while exiting Steam on my PC, and even tested it on my work laptop in my workplace which obviously doesn't have Steam.
I suppose you PC runs under Windows?

BTT: Can you call a compulsory fullfilled installation as some sort of DRM? I mean, you can run the games on our list without some sort of protective measure and you can transfer the game data anywhere you'd like, but you can't do a 'fresh installation' on another system. Yeah, you have to worry about the dependencies and sometimes about the registry (<- the part I don't like on win) and whatsoever. It IS a constraint but I wouldn't call it DRM.
If you don't count this constraint as DRM, what else could you call DRM?

Updated List
Post edited August 29, 2013 by Kick-aha
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anjohl: Incorrect. Part of what you are buying is the backup. All hard disc's fail, so you will one day need to redownload.
You are paying for an extra service there. Some retail game stores also offer you a service (guarantee) that if your retail CD gets broken, they will give you a new copy, or otherwise compensate for it. That is still not DRM, but an optional extra service which you don't necessarily have to use.

Also, not all digital stores offer unlimited downloads. For example Strategy First's own digital store, you have/had only a certain amount of times, or certain time window, to download your purchased games, after which you were supposed to keep the installers in a safe place yourself.

And as others pointed out, nothing is stopping you of keeping backups on several places. Yes, I have my Strategy First bundle game installers on several hard drives, I don't consider it plausible at the moment that they would all die at the same instant.
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anjohl: Incorrect. Part of what you are buying is the backup. All hard disc's fail, so you will one day need to redownload.
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timppu: You are paying for an extra service there. Some retail game stores also offer you a service (guarantee) that if your retail
No, that is an intrinsic part of the transaction. The average user does not pay gog.com for the right to download an executable once. The average user views their GOG shelf as a virtual game shelf, one that will exist forever, or at least as long as they need it to.


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timppu: I don't consider it plausible at the moment that they would all die at the same instant.
But it's actually completely plausible. What is also plausible is that people tend to get too comfortable with HDD storage, and take for granted that things need to be backed up at least in triplicate. Hence the proliferation of data recovery services/programs.
Post edited August 23, 2013 by anjohl