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BlueMooner: Let me throw another angle into this. How do hetero guys feel when other guys check them out?
I'm too ugly and getting too fat by eating unhealthy for that :-(
Post edited June 20, 2013 by keeveek
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BlueMooner: Let me throw another angle into this. How do hetero guys feel when other guys check them out? How do you feel if another guy is subtly sneaking a peek? What if they're blatantly staring at your crotch with their mouth open? How do you feel if another guy whistles at you, winks at you, or basically does any of the millions of things straight guys do to women?

Have you ever gotten angry or had an emotional reaction? Ever yelled at the guy or threatened them? Ever been physically violent towards a guy for hitting on you? Do you see any discrepancy between how justified/normal you feel in ogling women and how inappropriate/wrong you feel with men ogling you?

I'm not focusing on the responses, just wondering how far you've gone to see things from someone else's perspective and how much you care about double standards.
I've been on the receiving end of that kind of attention and, frankly, it didn't bother me. Then again, this goes just for me and I can't speak for anyone else.
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BlueMooner: Let me throw another angle into this. How do hetero guys feel when other guys check them out? How do you feel if another guy is subtly sneaking a peek? What if they're blatantly staring at your crotch with their mouth open? How do you feel if another guy whistles at you, winks at you, or basically does any of the millions of things straight guys do to women?

Have you ever gotten angry or had an emotional reaction? Ever yelled at the guy or threatened them? Ever been physically violent towards a guy for hitting on you? Do you see any discrepancy between how justified/normal you feel in ogling women and how inappropriate/wrong you feel with men ogling you?

I'm not focusing on the responses, just wondering how far you've gone to see things from someone else's perspective and how much you care about double standards.
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JudasIscariot: I've been on the receiving end of that kind of attention and, frankly, it didn't bother me. Then again, this goes just for me and I can't speak for anyone else.
Damn Judas you fine as hell, look at dat BUTT.
Not sure about it really. People need to be free to some extent to admire, be drawn, and engage one another, but I do think it is somewhat distasteful when guys take their perceived right to ogle to the point of doing a 180. There is some line of good taste in there where you aren't denying you are human, but aren't over playing the game, or perhaps feel no personal responsibility for how your behavior might make someone else feel. I say this as someone who does enjoy that a lot of women are putting themselves out on display , but I try to understand that random women walking about aren't necessarily OK with the kind of attention that say a Kate Upton gets. Some guys really do lack the basic realization that women are people with feelings, and aren't just there for fun.

I also think it's somewhat unrealistic for women to dress in an enticing way and hope only the men that they want to take notice will. BUT then some guys are just creepy, creepers with poorly defined boundaries, and some of what they do is just not OK regardless of what a girl is wearing. I guess I feel like there are some layers and hate to reduce it to "Men. They are the problem.", and I don't know that it is really a video game industry thing. Some guys are just creepy, creepers.
I'm not being sexist, but I know from experience that girls can do stupid things that if guys tried, they'd be called perverts and weirdos etcetera.
Well, I haven't read the article, and from the comments I don't really want to :) But there are some important points to be made about the topic.

There is a difference in how men and women react to being publicly checked out, physical affection, etc. And that gets ignored a lot. Men will say 'I don't mind it when someone checks me out' (and maybe that's true and maybe they're a little biased, YMMV as with all user-reported results), and don't understand that often women have a completely different way of perceiving being publicly checked out because of cultural prejudices or history.

Remember, in some countries it's assumed that any woman who gets a public reaction from a man is doing some bad or wrong. Even in Western democracies, frequently when a woman doesn't want attention her wishes get ignored. I don't know a single woman who *hasn't* had to deal with obnoxious creeps in public.

TL;DR AlKim's experience is not the typical experience of women in public - we *don't* have that certainty that men won't start doing creepy stuff when given the chance. That safety in public is a privilege that a lot of men don't extend to women, even when they extend it to other men.


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McDon: I'm not being sexist, but I know from experience that girls can do stupid things that if guys tried, they'd be called perverts and weirdos etcetera.
And guys can do things that would have people calling a girl a slut and harassing her. Double standards are yucky. :/
Post edited June 20, 2013 by HGiles
I don't really understand why women wear short shorts or expose their cleavage if they don't want attention. 0_o If I had a six-pack and was even more of a douche than I am now, I'd probably wear tighter fitting shirts to show it off.
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tfishell: I don't really understand why women wear short shorts or expose their cleavage if they don't want attention.
They feel comfortable with those clothes? They find such clothes practical?
More or less the same reason we all wear the clothes we wear. I find t-shirts practical thus I wear t-shirts. I do also enjoy wearing normal shirts or suits, but maintenance on them is a pain. Does that mean that when I wear a shirt I'm planning on being different than when I'm wearing my Wacken or Manowar t-shirt?
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gooberking: Not sure about it really. People need to be free to some extent to admire, be drawn, and engage one another, but I do think it is somewhat distasteful when guys take their perceived right to ogle to the point of doing a 180. There is some line of good taste in there where you aren't denying you are human, but aren't over playing the game, or perhaps feel no personal responsibility for how your behavior might make someone else feel.
You can certainly leer at a woman in a creepy and offensive manner. However I object strongly to the idea that the man in the gif was doing that. All he did was turn around as he walked by. The full 180 is just a byproduct of him doing it on the move. Also she never would have seen it, it's only because of random video capture that we know about it.

I've had to tell creepers to fuck off dozens of times, I know they exist. This is not an example of that. This is a man checking out a girl's ass because she is wearing tight, short shorts on a very casual inoffensive manner.
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tfishell: I don't really understand why women wear short shorts or expose their cleavage if they don't want attention. 0_o If I had a six-pack and was even more of a douche than I am now, I'd probably wear tighter fitting shirts to show it off.
I think it's a myth really. Why would they dress scarce and be offended if men check their butts/cleavage? Makes no sense...
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JMich: They feel comfortable with those clothes? They find such clothes practical?
Lets not be naive 12 year olds here. You can wear shorts without them being super tight or super short. If you opt for the latter it is because you want to feel sexy.
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nadenitza: I think it's a myth really. Why would they dress scarce and be offended if men check their butts/cleavage? Makes no sense...
When you wear a shortsleeve (or sleeveless) t-shirt, do you do it to show us your biceps? Because you know you present us your biceps if you wear it. Why don't you wear long sleeves if you don't wish us to admire your biceps?
Ah, Kotaku: the major tabloid of gamez journalizm... or whatever hokey thing they want to call it.
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JMich: They feel comfortable with those clothes? They find such clothes practical?
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StingingVelvet: Lets not be naive 12 year olds here. You can wear shorts without them being super tight or super short. If you opt for the latter it is because you want to feel sexy.
Feel comfortable part of my post. You know they make you look good, thus you wear them because you feel comfortable and confident in them. Effect can be the same whether it's a super tight shorts, a full length dress or a shirt and jeans. Whether some of those clothes are more pleasing to us is a different thing. They don't do it because they are more pleasing to us, they do it because the clothes are comfortable to them.
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StingingVelvet: ...
Well some peoples try very very hard to find something to be offended by something, I agree it's stupid but sadly it's nothing new; and recently it seems to have become an official sport among gaming press and bloggers.