It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Wow the post is still active cant believe people really took the matter seriously
avatar
ET3D: Perhaps so, but I think it's still wrong to accuse the women in this case of being the ones in the wrong or over-reacting.
Where did I do that?

The only comment I made on the other story was saying this stupid gif distracts from it.
avatar
timppu: Work is work, please remain professional.
Professional, huh ?
avatar
timppu: I'll play a feminist for awhile.

avatar
Red_Avatar: The booth babe one for example - is it really offensive to be asked if you're a booth babe when they stand for "sexy"?
avatar
timppu: I think I both agree and disagree. It could be that the guy meant it as a joke, as in: "You are so attractive that you could easily work as a booth babe here.". So he didn't necessarily think she is a booth babe, but he wanted to give a compliment.

But then... I can see many women's point of view that when they are in a profession and working, they'd probably want to be able to discuss with their (incl. male) co-workers and such, without feeling that everyone is trying to pick her up. It is simply unprofessional, and in many cases even demeaning. "Since you are a woman, you are not here only for your skills, but as an object of our desires.".

Yes, I expect the (few) women at my workplace not to give me compliments how handsome I am and I could be in the centerfold of Playgirl, in the middle of day. Work is work, please remain professional. If you can't help it and feel very attracted to me at work, you can be subtle. A smile may be enough (we Finns don't smile that much anyway, right? Only in special occasions.). If I see you in a restaurant, yeah ok, it may be different, then come with your Playgirl centerfold-line.

Of course nothing is black and white, in some cases compliments and such may be suitable and brighten the working day. Use common sense. There's a fine line between compliments and feeling like you're being picked up.

/feminist_mode
I think one word there kinda says it all - you're Finnish. Americans are very very vocal about what they think and it's miles apart from Finland - or Belgium for that sake - in terms of how they approach people. Even where I work, people give compliments on each other's looks and people are pretty reserved as well here.

My point is - Americans are Americans and are quicker to throw stuff like that around. If I was in the US and got a compliment, I'd know to look at it for what it is.
avatar
Red_Avatar: My point is - Americans are Americans and are quicker to throw stuff like that around. If I was in the US and got a compliment, I'd know to look at it for what it is.
Never thought of it as an Americanism before, but yes, we throw that stuff around pretty casually. Though due to these political correctness crusades it is getting less common. You kind of have to read people a little bit now before you can be as blunt as we are used to.
avatar
timppu: Work is work, please remain professional.
avatar
Vestin: Professional, huh ?
Fucking hienas...

I bet they were counting on him to break into tears.
Post edited June 23, 2013 by keeveek
avatar
keeveek: Fucking hienas...

I bet they were counting on him to break into tears.
It's Onion.
avatar
Aver: It's Onion.
I don't even know what that is...

edit: oh, it's satire. Ok, you got me :P

BUT

if something like that happened in real life, I would rather blame the reporters. They shuold stay out of his fucking business. And it's pretty common in Poland for journalists to ask about petty stuff and non-important things, so I thought it's true :P I could imagine it being real, it's how some people act just before the suicide attempt.

This video wasn't funny at all for me. I don't show grief externally just as much, and people around act like I'm some sort of a weirdo, drill the subject and cause more internal pain.
Post edited June 23, 2013 by keeveek
avatar
ET3D: Perhaps so, but I think it's still wrong to accuse the women in this case of being the ones in the wrong or over-reacting.
avatar
StingingVelvet: Where did I do that?
Sorry, bad quoting on my part. My reply was to BlueMooner, who I felt went overboard in trying to show how the women quoted in the article were in the wrong.
avatar
Red_Avatar: I think one word there kinda says it all - you're Finnish.
Yep, but these stories were not. So it would seem to me that these things are overall quite universal, even if there are cultural differences (like flirting in some countries is more daily than in others, or in some cultures women stay at home and use veils).

Or was your point that the lady should not be offended if _at his work_ a male "colleague" does not keep it at professional level, but takes it to, what to some is an awkward, unprofessional "Mmmm, I'm a man and you are a woman, meee likeyyyy!" level? Because that's what you just should tolerate, if you are American? Apparently that lady still disagreed for some reason.

In the potential sexual harassment cases, I think it is simple to draw the line: the one who for any reason feels offended should let the other party know about it, and right at that point the other one should stop. Not even continue "Come on, little flirting never hurts anyone, aye? I should be able to tell someone if I like what I see?". The continuing part is when it becomes harassment, even if it happens on a different day.

Common sense of course: if someone e.g. doesn't even want you to be in the same room with you for some odd reason, he/she shouldn't tell you to leave, but leave himself/herself. As long as you don't follow and try to continue it.

So in that sense, the guy with the booth babe remark didn't commit anything like a sexual harassment. But I feel he was possibly unprofessional with his remark. Hard to say for an outsider of course, would have to see the situation yourself (like, if she was indeed wearing sexy clothes that would seem only crave for attention; in that case it is actually she who was being unprofessional ;)).
Post edited June 23, 2013 by timppu
I prefer to wear nothing at all and run around the gazebo on the hill in the center of town drunk, much to the delight and entertainment of the ladies driving around in circles watching me.

Okay, in truth that was a long time ago and late at night but I liked it and so did they. Today I get smiles but right behind them is laughter being held back I suspect. Then again, 54 year old guys don't exactly dress fashionably, at least I don't. I dress for comfort, look like hell and don't care.

Men have a deserved reputation as a group for being obnoxious in their advances towards women. A woman being dressed attractively isn't a license to act like an asshole towards her. It is one thing to notice an attractive woman in public. It is quite another to be leering at her or worse. And that is the justified issue women have with men all too often. An easy guideline for men much of the time would be to treat every woman you meet like you would want the women in your family treated, such as your mother. Unfortunately, a lot of guys don't make this basic connection and are offensive to women which is pretty stupid of them and naturally does not get them where they want to go anyway. I know not all guys are like this thankfully but enough are that it does not surprise me at all to hear about this Kotaku article which I did not read. What I mean is, it does not surprise that this basic issue comes up over and over. It will continue to do so until men get their shit together.

As for us guys, come on. Let's be real. How often is women leering at us and more a problem? How many articles have been written about guys who are troubled by aggressive women bothering them just because they wore speedos jogging. Umm, I think guys don't run into this much really. At my age if I was out in speedos and a random woman had anything nice to say to me rather than dying of laughter on the spot, I would be grateful. Even lewd remarks would be fine. I'll take what I can get for attention at this point. But you know what? That sort of scenario almost never happens.

Anyway, the bottom line is men need to be kind and respectful to women as the norm. That's how it ought to be and then articles like the Kotaku one wouldn't even be written. And for those few guys troubled by aggressive women (lucky bastards) I guess certain women need to tone it down too, although not for me personally.

As I wrote the above I was struck by how my take on this sort of behavior if it was directed toward me isn't serious but now i know why - because in 54 years of living it's never been a problem where it has rarely ever happened. And no, I am not a cyclops or something. The fact is women don't tend to be obnoxious towards men in public anywhere near so often as men do towards women. This stuff comes up for a reason.
avatar
dirtyharry50: Men have a deserved reputation as a group for being obnoxious in their advances towards women. A woman being dressed attractively isn't a license to act like an asshole towards her. It is one thing to notice an attractive woman in public. It is quite another to be leering at her or worse.
He turned to look at her, then he kept walking. You wrote a lot of paragraphs without looking at the gif, which would have showed you this was not a case where we need multiple paragraphs about how horrible men are to women.
avatar
dirtyharry50: Men have a deserved reputation as a group for being obnoxious in their advances towards women. A woman being dressed attractively isn't a license to act like an asshole towards her. It is one thing to notice an attractive woman in public. It is quite another to be leering at her or worse.
avatar
StingingVelvet: He turned to look at her, then he kept walking. You wrote a lot of paragraphs without looking at the gif, which would have showed you this was not a case where we need multiple paragraphs about how horrible men are to women.
I read the same description of the gif you are repeating now and didn't need to see it or read the article to comment on the subject in general.

This is an old topic as in ages old. I don't need to look at the latest picture, latest article, every time it comes up to have a general opinion about it.

I should probably point out again too that my comments are not about all men being horrible to women but rather some which is too many.
Post edited June 23, 2013 by dirtyharry50
avatar
dirtyharry50: This is an old topic as in ages old. I don't need to look at the latest picture, latest article, every time it comes up to have a general opinion about it.
I guess you think you're being above it all or something, but really commenting on something without even looking at it is pretty stupid. I'm not calling you stupid or trying to start a fight, but you coming on as strong as you did without actually looking at what we're all talking about just really irritates me.

To address your larger point, of course there is a point where looking can be creepy and inappropriate. While I'm sure some of us have looked a little too long here and there I think we all know where harmless appreciation turns into creepy leering, in general. For the men who don't I hope they read actually well done articles and such to get an education on how to look with respect.

I don't think telling me to treat hot girls in public like they were my mother is very realistic however, unless I was to somehow become asexual.
avatar
dirtyharry50: This is an old topic as in ages old. I don't need to look at the latest picture, latest article, every time it comes up to have a general opinion about it.
avatar
StingingVelvet: I guess you think you're being above it all or something, but really commenting on something without even looking at it is pretty stupid. I'm not calling you stupid or trying to start a fight, but you coming on as strong as you did without actually looking at what we're all talking about just really irritates me.

To address your larger point, of course there is a point where looking can be creepy and inappropriate. While I'm sure some of us have looked a little too long here and there I think we all know where harmless appreciation turns into creepy leering, in general. For the men who don't I hope they read actually well done articles and such to get an education on how to look with respect.

I don't think telling me to treat hot girls in public like they were my mother is very realistic however, unless I was to somehow become asexual.
I get the impression you are not in the best of moods this morning SV.

I do not think I am "above it all" generally speaking. I am as human as the next person and make at least my fair share of mistakes. Just in case you took me wrong, my comments were not aimed at you in particular or anyone here in particular for that matter.

The article and pic bring up the general topic of men not acting well toward women and I simply commented on that. It runs no deeper. I had no other thoughts beyond what I expressed.

You don't have to be asexual to treat a woman with respect and that is what the treat her like you would your mother comment was about. That is all I meant by that and I thought the general meaning there was pretty obvious.

I think you might need to chill a little to be honest and I'm not trying to put you down in saying that but if this is "the most rage-inducing article you've ever read" I have got to wonder if you missed the news when 9/11 happened, the school children in CT were murdered, etc., etc., etc. This isn't huge, you know? I mean one Kotaku article you don't agree with. I think you are right about one thing. You shouldn't waste your time on Kotaku. I know I don't which was why I didn't waste any reading the article referenced here. Call me stupid but I think skipping Kotaku is smart actually. :D