Well, this certainly exploded while I was at work. I won't bother to reply to everyone individually, I'll just reiterate (as others also have done) that the argument is not "no indies should release any games on Steam", but "indies ought not to release all their games only on Steam".

There is a huge difference between those two sentiments, but I think people are so used to these discussions polarizing into two camps, each 100% either for or against Steam, that they immediately latch onto that as being the focus of the discussion.

Of course indies should use Steam, it would be foolish not to. They just shouldn't use it exclusively. It's bad for the industry (as monopolies tend to be), and ultimately for themselves.

DON'T YOU TELL ME WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO BE EMOTIONAL ABOUT!!!

Oh, wait ....

http://www.desura.com/

EDIT: also www.indievania.com as my esteemed cohorts have also pointed out.

Why are you yelling, you were a different person when I married youuuuu! D':

Better yet, www.indievania.com where 100% of the monies go to developers.

or

Indievania (no client, maybe even no costs for developers to get the game hosted there)


EDIT: Heh, I didn't expect to get ninja'd on this. :D


Btw, it seems there are a lot of assumptions in this thread, e.g. that the indie status of indie developers has to be a freely chosen and idealistic one (they could also just be indie because they didn't find a publisher, who knows some might be glad to give up that independence), but also that indie developers are not interested in the views of minorities and have nothing to gain from listening to them.

I'm a gamer, I spend money on games, I could buy their game.

They are game developers, they're creating and then selling their games, they could sell me their game.

I think the reason to initiate a negotiatiojn is obvious.

Mmhh, maybe I did jump the gun a little bit. There are a lot of "gaming hipsters" trolling around (not here, but in general), who thing the best time for gaming was the 80s (yes, I really read that). And if these people (preferably on their airbooks) complain that indie developers are "selling out" because they want to finally earn some money for their hard work, I'm getting angry. Maybe I'm like one of those old generals in the movies, who sees commies everywhere...

But I still think that Steam remains one of the best things that has happend to indie gaming (alongside the Humble Bundles).

I still consider Steam the "perfect" DRM for all the services it adds (autoupdates, cloud storage, "digital shelf" achievements), and the cons lose severence with each passing year. I guess it would be preferable if they used a DRM like GOG additionally (only account based downloading, DRM free games) so that gamers like you could enjoy their games.

Once GOG will have a client (an inevitable move, imo) they will probably still use both (as they can't forcefully tie their games to such a client). This might result in some interesting behavioral data.

As usual, painting a black and white picture makes things a lot easier for certain people.

I do get why so many smaller devs go through Steam (easier publishing, greater visibility), and I have no problem with them doing so, but I'd also wish that they at least provide one other way to get their games preferably DRM-free. You can't tell me that services like Plimus or BMT Micro would be too difficult to use, especially since their service fees probably amount to the same chunk Valve takes if not less.

There's a few games that come to mind which I chose not to purchase as I don't want these smaller titles tied to a platform such as Steam. Thankfully, I was able to obtain some of these 'Steam exclusives' through the Humble Bundle.

I think everyone here would like to see indie developers make more money. But I get that it's very easy to see the word "Steam" in a negative context and sort of assume that whatever the post says it's just Steam bashing. That then colours your perception when you read it, and you may not read as carefully as you otherwise would.
Interestingly enough, if the Steam client was optional, I'd probably use it a lot more.

You got me!

Right yeah, the reason I hate Steam is obviously because I think it's cool to hate Steam. It has nothing to do with not wanting to run an irritating program to play a game I might not have even bought from Steam itself. Nothing at all.

I just think it makes me look cool.

(I don't think I can read your posts seriously from now on)

No, because that "poster-child example of a corporate monopoly" doesn't dictate how your development goes because it doesn't finance your game.

Indie means that you don't have a corporate backer, not that you don't distribute your game on regular channels.

Desura uses the same system as Steam.
Just to try and explain myself again, Steam was not the only focus, it is more about DRM than about Steam. But, as another proof of Steam being maybe too big, all the discussion has reduced to that DD.