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There certainly are but they aren't very intuitive or feature rich. For print only two softwares packages are considered as being viable alternatives Adobe indesign and quark express ....so it's pretty much a monopoly there and thus you have the overpriced software.


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SimonForsman: As for SC2 and D3 i don't have as much of a problem with those requiring you to be online to play as i do with a game like AC2 due to the first two being primarily multiplayer games,
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timppu: Really? I loved Starcraft + Brood Wars (and played through (not loved) Diablo 1 + Hellfire, and large part of Diablo 2: LoD, but not completed it yet), but I haven't played them online (almost) at all. I have always treated them purely as single-player games.

If Starcraft 2 is to be considered primarily a multiplayer game, good reason for me to pass it then. I'm not interested in the multiplayer part at all.

That's what I was hoping from Blizzard, that they would come clean and simply make D3 a multiplayer-only game. Why to pretend it is a single-player game too, if it is not supposed to be?

Luckily there are lots of other games out there too, my life does not depend on Blizzard games (and after all the Starcraft series is the only one I'm really interested in their lineup).


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Lionel212008: I wouldn't go so far as to call mainstream publishing a niche market which is where these tools are used the most.However these products are certainly very over priced for the little updates that they offer....it's not reasonable by any degree.
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timppu: Aren't there any cheaper alternatives? I would think that if there is a possibility of price-couging, then it would lure lots of competitors to the market.

Problem is of course if one player can lock out others out of the market somehow, by becoming the de-facto stardard, owning the patents etc.
Not strictly about DRM, but I tend to gravitate towards games where I see real passion to the game and gaming instead, instead of the company bean-counters trying to "optimize" the most out of the game.

Such optimization would mean e.g. making heaps of costly expansion packs for the base product, releasing lots of "gold" or "ultimate" editions of the game (possibly expecting gamers to buy the same game several times in the different editions), DLC, locked content that can be opened only with micro-payments, episodic games etc.

I see those all as schemes trying to figure out "how could we make the users pay as much as possible for the same game?", nothing more.

From the past, that was one of the reasons why I always kept out of the HoMM series. My head started spinning how many expansion packs, chapters, Special Editions, Chronicles etc. they kept releasing, apparently just trying to confuse the gamers and trick them into buying same games several times.

On the other end of the spectrum, I would put e.g. the early Sid Meier's games which to me seemed full games where the passion to make the base game as good as possible shows, and also Witcher 1-2. CDPR seems to support their games very long, they don't release expansion packs but free updates that not only fix bugs but also add features to the game, without asking more money from the user... And not to mention removing the DRM even against Capcom wishes as soon as they realize the problems the publisher's DRM is causing.

That kind of dedication needs to be rewarded. Ubisoft and EA with their annual FIFA series and locked content can go suck a big one, I don't care.
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timppu: On the other end of the spectrum, I would put e.g. the early Sid Meier's games which to me seemed full games where the passion to make the base game as good as possible shows, and also Witcher 1-2. CDPR seems to support their games very long, they don't release expansion packs but free updates that not only fix bugs but also add features to the game, without asking more money from the user...
Which is all put to shame by this little game called Team Fortress 2 made by the Evil Empire itself.
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bazilisek: Which is all put to shame by this little game called Team Fortress 2 made by the Evil Empire itself.
Freebies trying to lure in more customers to a service are nothing new, everyone has them, even GoG. You would have a better point if it was possible to play TF2 (or free Portal) without the use of the Steam service. :^P They are mere marketing tricks, nothing more.
Post edited October 03, 2011 by timppu
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timppu: Freebies trying to lure in more customers to a service are nothing new, everyone has them, even GoG. You would have a better point if it was possible to play TF2 (or free Portal) without the use of the Steam service. :^P They are mere marketing tricks, nothing more.
Do look it up sometimes. The number, quality and scope of updates to TF2 is something you really can't label as simple "freebies" and put alongside stuff like HD wallpapers or forum avatars. That's just laughable.
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timppu: Freebies trying to lure in more customers to a service are nothing new, everyone has them, even GoG. You would have a better point if it was possible to play TF2 (or free Portal) without the use of the Steam service. :^P They are mere marketing tricks, nothing more.
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bazilisek: Do look it up sometimes. The number, quality and scope of updates to TF2 is something you really can't label as simple "freebies" and put alongside stuff like HD wallpapers or forum avatars. That's just laughable.
Obviously I was referring above to free games on GoG (or DotEmu, or whatever service), not wallpapers. They are marketing tricks to get more customers to the service, nothing more.

Furthermore, it is no news that multiplayer games need support longer than single-player games. Certainly lots of other multiplayer-only games get several patches, even extra maps etc., if for no other reason but to puff the service which you have to use in order to play the multiplayer game.

I guess it would be the same if CDPR would offer the new features, DRM removals etc. only to the GoG version of Witcher 2, but they offer them also to retail versions just as well.
Every time I hear developers or publishers talk about piracy -> great, more DRM for me, yippee-freaking-doo.
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timppu: ´Obviously I was referring above to free games on GoG (or DotEmu, or whatever service), not wallpapers. They are marketing tricks to get more customers to the service, nothing more.
I see. Well, TF2 was supported this way for years before it became free, so excuse me for not understanding why you dragged this point into the discussion at all; the fact that TF2 is free now is irrelevant to what I had in mind. I just wanted to point out that it's all well and good to praise CDP RED for supporting TW2 (and hooray for them!), but that if you want to focus on "real passion to the game and gaming instead, instead of the company bean-counters trying to "optimize" the most out of the game", then TF2 is a really good example, too. Before the Mannconomy kicked in, Valve poured time and money into the game without any monetary reward at all.

As always, I was just playing the devil's advocate and trying to hint that nothing is just black or white.
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bazilisek: I just wanted to point out that it's all well and good to praise CDP RED for supporting TW2 (and hooray for them!), but that if you want to focus on "real passion to the game and gaming instead, instead of the company bean-counters trying to "optimize" the most out of the game", then TF2 is a really good example, too. Before the Mannconomy kicked in, Valve poured time and money into the game without any monetary reward at all.
...except for that fact that it can't be used without the Steam service, of course. So like I said, it would be about the same if CDPR would offer the perks and updates only to the GoG version of Witcher 2, which then to me would not necessarily be much more but a stunt to puff GoG. But as said, they offer the same perks also for the "GoG-free" retail version.

But yes, it is certainly good that Valve supports a Steam multiplayer-only game almost as long as e.g. Blizzard supports their Battle.net multiplayer games. But in my example, I was trying to make a distinction between PR stunts and the true passion for gaming and (one's) games.

Of course sometimes it is not quite that clear cut, naturally one could claim that making great complete games was just Sid Meier's PR stunt to lure people into buying his games.
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timppu: But in my example, I was trying to make a distinction between PR stunts and the true passion for gaming and (one's) games.
The distinction obviously being in who are we talking about: good companies have true passion, and if evil companies happen to do good sometimes, it's nothing but PR. Lovely.

I can't help it, I find zealots amusing, no matter what agenda it is they are pushing. Carry on.
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bazilisek: The distinction obviously being in who are we talking about: good companies have true passion, and if evil companies happen to do good sometimes, it's nothing but PR. Lovely.
If you had read my earlier message, you would have seen where the true difference lies. No, I don't consider e.g. offering TeenAgent, Tyrian2000, Beneath a Steel Sky and Lure of the Tempress for free as a sign of dedication and passion, and I do not claim "GoG does it even though they don't make any money from that move". Of course they do, luring people into creating a GoG account, which is breaking the first barrier into selling GoG games to them.