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Wishbone: Well, it has the opposite effect on me.
Me too. You're quite right that HL2 was too different a game to be played in the same way. In fact it should have included some dialogue options, suit upgrades ect. Things which rounded out Gordon so he fitted in better with the otherwise well crafted environment. It was sort of a bit like Doom 3 in that it didn't quite seem to know which direction it should be heading in.
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Navagon: It was sort of a bit like Doom 3 in that it didn't quite seem to know which direction it should be heading in.
Doom 3 was probably an excellent game in its genre. The problem was that it was the wrong genre. I bought it thinking it would be the next Doom game, only now with significantly better technology, but it wasn't a Doom game at all. Calling it Doom 3 should be considered false advertising.

I'll never understand why publishers/developers don't just start new IPs if they want to head off in a completely different direction than the existing series was going. Are the sales they garner on the name alone really worth all the bad press from the existing fans? Or is it again a matter of the people in charge of making decisions like that just not understanding the gamer mentality?
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Navagon: It was sort of a bit like Doom 3 in that it didn't quite seem to know which direction it should be heading in.
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Wishbone: Doom 3 was probably an excellent game in its genre. The problem was that it was the wrong genre. I bought it thinking it would be the next Doom game, only now with significantly better technology, but it wasn't a Doom game at all. Calling it Doom 3 should be considered false advertising.

I'll never understand why publishers/developers don't just start new IPs if they want to head off in a completely different direction than the existing series was going. Are the sales they garner on the name alone really worth all the bad press from the existing fans? Or is it again a matter of the people in charge of making decisions like that just not understanding the gamer mentality?
Or maybe Doom 3 is what Doom would have been had it been created a decade later? Who knows how much of Doom is down to technological and time constraints and how much was intentional?
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Navagon: Or maybe Doom 3 is what Doom would have been had it been created a decade later? Who knows how much of Doom is down to technological and time constraints and how much was intentional?
I sincerely doubt that Doom 3 was the vision the developers had while making Doom 1. It still doesn't matter though. Once a series is established with a specific style and type of gameplay, that's what that series is about, whether or not that is what the people behind it intended in the first place. Deviate too much from the established formula in an official sequel, and there will be a backlash. One which usually could have been avoided simply by changing the title of the game to make it clear that it was not a part of the established series. Like New World Computing did with Might & Magic and Heroes of Might & Magic. The game might even be loved by fans of the existing series on its own merits, while they would have hated it if it had tried to mask as a true sequel, simply because it was completely different from what they expected.
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Navagon: Or maybe Doom 3 is what Doom would have been had it been created a decade later? Who knows how much of Doom is down to technological and time constraints and how much was intentional?
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Wishbone: I sincerely doubt that Doom 3 was the vision the developers had while making Doom 1. It still doesn't matter though. Once a series is established with a specific style and type of gameplay, that's what that series is about, whether or not that is what the people behind it intended in the first place. Deviate too much from the established formula in an official sequel, and there will be a backlash.
But people will complain about lack of innovation and thus decries the series for stagnating, for one look at Call of duty despite changes in setting and multiplayer people still called it the same game since Call of Duty 1.

Or worse a game that did change: Resident Evil, people were getting tired of the same gameplay until they finally changed the game from top to bottom with RE4 and despite being loved by everyone the later games RE5 and 6 are still decried from being too different from the classics.

No pleasing anyone.
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Elmofongo: But people will complain about lack of innovation and thus decries the series for stagnating, for one look at Call of duty despite changes in setting and multiplayer people still called it the same game since Call of Duty 1.

Or worse a game that did change: Resident Evil, people were getting tired of the same gameplay until they finally changed the game from top to bottom with RE4 and despite being loved by everyone the later games RE5 and 6 are still decried from being too different from the classics.

No pleasing anyone.
So? Then don't make any more games in that series. Make something new instead.
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Elmofongo: But people will complain about lack of innovation and thus decries the series for stagnating, for one look at Call of duty despite changes in setting and multiplayer people still called it the same game since Call of Duty 1.

Or worse a game that did change: Resident Evil, people were getting tired of the same gameplay until they finally changed the game from top to bottom with RE4 and despite being loved by everyone the later games RE5 and 6 are still decried from being too different from the classics.

No pleasing anyone.
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Wishbone: So? Then don't make any more games in that series. Make something new instead.
Exactly, but than people will bitch because they missed X or Y game series and demand a sequal like Half-Life or Dino Crisis.
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Wishbone: I sincerely doubt that Doom 3 was the vision the developers had while making Doom 1. It still doesn't matter though. Once a series is established with a specific style and type of gameplay, that's what that series is about, whether or not that is what the people behind it intended in the first place. Deviate too much from the established formula in an official sequel, and there will be a backlash. One which usually could have been avoided simply by changing the title of the game to make it clear that it was not a part of the established series. Like New World Computing did with Might & Magic and Heroes of Might & Magic. The game might even be loved by fans of the existing series on its own merits, while they would have hated it if it had tried to mask as a true sequel, simply because it was completely different from what they expected.
I'm not disagreeing with that. I think that the cons of association with the previous Dooms outweigh the pros. It should have been its own IP. It could have had some Doom references in there. In fact they needn't have changed more than the name (and added flash lights and random enemy spawns).

There are two things that id are tied to: their old school FPS gameplay and their established IPs. It seems that when they break away from one the other slaps them in the face. Breaking away from both seems to be beyond them.

So maybe they're Doomed.
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Wishbone: So? Then don't make any more games in that series. Make something new instead.
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Elmofongo: Exactly, but than people will bitch because they missed X or Y game series and demand a sequal like Half-Life or Dino Crisis.
Again, so what? People may refuse to buy Series X 4 because it's nothing like Series X 3, but they don't refuse to buy Original IP 1 because it's nothing like Series X 3. I don't think any of Valve's post-HL2 games have sold less for not being HL3. Yes, lots of people want Half-Life 3, but they don't stop buying games until they get it, do they?
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Red_Avatar: HL2 had people talking to a mute and acting as if he actually responded which was incredibly jarring to me. To see Alyx gush all over Freeman made me roll my eyes a great deal.
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Titanium: He might actually be a mute and can only communicate in sign language everyone understands like thumb's up and such.
That would be so incredible if it became canon.
Or maybe he got a very very serious case of Asperger Syndrome..

Alyx: "Oh Gordon! You're alive!" *hugs him tightly*
Gordon: Stares at shoes and notices how one has a smudge on it and proceeds to wipe it on Alyx jeans to buff them.
Alyx: "I thought you were dead! There's a chance we can beat them after all now!"
Gordon: Uses his gravity gun to fling dead cats at her while he waits for her to stop talking.

It would actually explain a great deal!
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Titanium: He might actually be a mute and can only communicate in sign language everyone understands like thumb's up and such.
That would be so incredible if it became canon.
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Red_Avatar: Or maybe he got a very very serious case of Asperger Syndrome..
I think you guys are just playing it wrong. You are supposed to talk out loud to the monitor while you are playing:

"Yes Alyx, I'm so happy to see you too!" *hugs the monitor*
Post edited October 20, 2013 by timppu
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Red_Avatar: Or maybe he got a very very serious case of Asperger Syndrome..
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timppu: I think you guys are just playing it wrong. You are supposed to talk out loud to the monitor while you are playing:

"Yes Alex, I'm so happy to see you too!" *hugs the monitor*
"HERE ARE SOME DEAD CATS JUST FOR YOU!"
Laugh all you want, but wasn't the protagonist from Bioshock 1 also mute? ;)
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Charon121: Laugh all you want, but wasn't the protagonist from Bioshock 1 also mute? ;)
He didn't speak much but he did at times.
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Charon121: Laugh all you want, but wasn't the protagonist from Bioshock 1 also mute? ;)
I'll admit I never completed the game, but from what I did play of it, I don't recall there being anyone there to talk to, other than to say, y'know, "Argharrrhpleasenononodon'teatmyfaceaaaaargh!". It was certainly nothing like HL2 with several people carrying on entire conversations around and involving you, seemingly without noticing that you aren't saying a goddamn thing.