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Theoclymenus: Was buying a brand new PC justified in the end ? No, because the quality of games since then, regardless of graphics, has not been amazing. Most of the games I want to play are still oldies.
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lettmon: I'm in the same boat - bought a new gaming pc in 2009 and have been mostly disappointed with the modern games. Batman Arkham Asylum has been the only modern game that I have really really enjoyed. Well Hitman Blood Money runs much better, but I've been replaying the ps2 version of it anyway -_-
This is crazy to me, I mean I adore my favorite games of all generations, but to say Assassin's Creed 3 and Borderlands 2 are "bad" games seems silly to me. Hell, let's throw in XCOM: Enemy Unknown and Spec Ops: The Line for good measure (all from 2012). Far Cry 3 (which I haven't played) apparently also turned out very well.

If I get to toss in console titles I can throw out even more. If I can toss in non-AAA games like Mark of the Ninja I'd be here typing all night.
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orcishgamer: This is crazy to me, I mean I adore my favorite games of all generations, but to say Assassin's Creed 3 and Borderlands 2 are "bad" games seems silly to me. Hell, let's throw in XCOM: Enemy Unknown and Spec Ops: The Line for good measure (all from 2012). Far Cry 3 (which I haven't played) apparently also turned out very well.

If I get to toss in console titles I can throw out even more. If I can toss in non-AAA games like Mark of the Ninja I'd be here typing all night.
Sorry but most of the games you named are unworthy of my time haha Far Cry 3 was like watching paint dry, while being on drugs, but it's still the same - this game gives illusion of lots of content but it's all very generic and repetitive to me. XCOM is another story, I played the demo, but I never pay more than 30usd so waiting for price drop -_-

I forgot about Fallout New Vegas, that was worth buying new pc for.
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orcishgamer: This is crazy to me, I mean I adore my favorite games of all generations, but to say Assassin's Creed 3 and Borderlands 2 are "bad" games seems silly to me. Hell, let's throw in XCOM: Enemy Unknown and Spec Ops: The Line for good measure (all from 2012). Far Cry 3 (which I haven't played) apparently also turned out very well.

If I get to toss in console titles I can throw out even more. If I can toss in non-AAA games like Mark of the Ninja I'd be here typing all night.
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lettmon: Sorry but most of the games you named are unworthy of my time haha Far Cry 3 was like watching paint dry, while being on drugs, but it's still the same - this game gives illusion of lots of content but it's all very generic and repetitive to me. XCOM is another story, I played the demo, but I never pay more than 30usd so waiting for price drop -_-

I forgot about Fallout New Vegas, that was worth buying new pc for.
Spec Ops: The Line, the game that many critics are calling the most important thing in gaming in the last 10 years, not worth one's time. You've the right to your opinion, of course, I just can't say I understand it at all.
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StingingVelvet: Certainly, and I'm all for examining all those expenditures. I guess my main point was that you don't need to have a super high budget to sell games, there are countless examples of this. So why spend a hundred and fifty million to make a game when it is irrelevant to selling a ton of copies?
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orcishgamer: Certainly you can make games for much less and folks often do, I'm not sure you can make the 150 million dollar games for a lot less (using today's tech anyway) and I'm grateful to play the expensive ones as well. I think it crosses the point of silliness when companies bankrupt themselves by "only" making the expensive games and refusing to produce other equally profitable (but not on the same magnitude, i.e. lower cost and lower total profit) games.
No, this is not the issue. The issue is that since gamers generally want more "advanced looking" games, publishers want the developpers to have high end engines that will then require a lot of graphic artists. This adds a lot of expenses which means the game now has to sell a whole lot more.
If you stick with simpler games, with less need for graphic artists, you can sell your game less (which you probably will because of the graphics not being "1337") and still make a profit.
If it was just me, i'd kill off publishers and just play "indie" games. Pretty sure it's what's going to happen if they don't change a thing anyway.
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Faenrir: If it was just me, i'd kill off publishers and just play "indie" games. Pretty sure it's what's going to happen if they don't change a thing anyway.
There's no need to go full indie, just lower budgets on AAA games. Use art design to cover for having less detail, focus on crisp over endlessly cluttered, etc.

For years now we have been hearing "unless you're Call of Duty or Elder Scrolls you're not selling enough to break even" and yet these companies keep repeating the same budgets. It's the definition of insanity, but the solution can be much more nuanced than "give up."
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Faenrir: If it was just me, i'd kill off publishers and just play "indie" games. Pretty sure it's what's going to happen if they don't change a thing anyway.
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StingingVelvet: There's no need to go full indie, just lower budgets on AAA games. Use art design to cover for having less detail, focus on crisp over endlessly cluttered, etc.

For years now we have been hearing "unless you're Call of Duty or Elder Scrolls you're not selling enough to break even" and yet these companies keep repeating the same budgets. It's the definition of insanity, but the solution can be much more nuanced than "give up."
One must keep in mind, as well, that their version of "making money" is probably wildly different from what we would consider it to be. I'm pretty sure they can "not be making money" on a lot of their games and keep the doors open, because much of the time it merely means "didn't meet revenue projections and make us as *much* money as we wanted". We'll fuck that, they're still covering expenses.

Darksiders 2 probably failed to "make money" only because they were banking on it covering more than its own expenses.
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orcishgamer: One must keep in mind, as well, that their version of "making money" is probably wildly different from what we would consider it to be. I'm pretty sure they can "not be making money" on a lot of their games and keep the doors open, because much of the time it merely means "didn't meet revenue projections and make us as *much* money as we wanted". We'll fuck that, they're still covering expenses.

Darksiders 2 probably failed to "make money" only because they were banking on it covering more than its own expenses.
Fair point. We have to work within their system to get what we want though.
Post edited January 26, 2013 by StingingVelvet
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StingingVelvet: There's no need to go full indie, just lower budgets on AAA games. Use art design to cover for having less detail, focus on crisp over endlessly cluttered, etc.

For years now we have been hearing "unless you're Call of Duty or Elder Scrolls you're not selling enough to break even" and yet these companies keep repeating the same budgets. It's the definition of insanity, but the solution can be much more nuanced than "give up."
Thing is, publishers in the video game industry now work the same way as producers in the movie industry. They want to appeal to the mass market so they can market it easily by using brainwashing advertising everywhere and be sure to sell. On tinier markets, it's more of a gamble, no matter how good a game is.
Publishers/producers want sure investment return for whatever reason. They've been plaguing the video game industry for some time now, making decisions they shouldn't be allowed to make and having the final word.

I just watched the credits on Deus Ex:HR...15 people worked on the textures... just the textures. x)
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Faenrir: Thing is, publishers in the video game industry now work the same way as producers in the movie industry.
I don't consider that an accurate comparison, movie studios target a variety of markets with varying budgets. They actually have this figured out while game studios lag far behind. Warner does not try and make every movie into Batman, the budget based on audience size. Meanwhile THQ thinks a game like Darksiders can sell as much as Call of Duty.
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lettmon: I'm in the same boat - bought a new gaming pc in 2009 and have been mostly disappointed with the modern games. Batman Arkham Asylum has been the only modern game that I have really really enjoyed. Well Hitman Blood Money runs much better, but I've been replaying the ps2 version of it anyway -_-
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orcishgamer: This is crazy to me, I mean I adore my favorite games of all generations, but to say Assassin's Creed 3 and Borderlands 2 are "bad" games seems silly to me. Hell, let's throw in XCOM: Enemy Unknown and Spec Ops: The Line for good measure (all from 2012). Far Cry 3 (which I haven't played) apparently also turned out very well.

If I get to toss in console titles I can throw out even more. If I can toss in non-AAA games like Mark of the Ninja I'd be here typing all night.
Xcom: Enemy Unknown is like a 90s game and modern triple-AAA game's child. Graphic of one, gameplay of another...
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StingingVelvet: To some degree graphics reached "good enough" for me with Crysis like 5 years ago. Recently though it's being hammered into my skull. I've played three games recently, Far Cry 3, Max Payne 3 and Hitman: Absolution, which look AMAZING. Like, as lifelike as I think games ever need to look. Any more lifelike might actually look worse in a weird way.

Since budgets keep climbing and sales stay the same, it makes sense to stop at some point. Games like Minecraft, WoW and every indie game ever show that people care more about art design and gameplay than they do pure tech. I am definitely at a place now where I don't need graphics to look any better.

How about you? Eager for new consoles, hoping graphics take another leap? Looking to SLI two amazing new video cards this Fall so you can pump out the latest amazingness? Or are you good to go, like me, and hoping for a very small upgrade?
I am reviving this thread because I want to show you this, Have we reach or passed beyond the Uncanny Valley for games?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKfHSz44Gtw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeC3GO6UY4Q

I know Unreal Engine 4 looks amazing, but I have not seen human faces yet.
Post edited March 17, 2013 by Elmofongo