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Microfish_1: Query: is it possible to have lovers where one dies but the other doesn't?
I mean, it could be possible. Catventurer claims he knows Joe is Town, but Joe claims he doesn't know Catventurer is Town. This kind of inconsistency doesn't sound farfetched.


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Lifthrasil: The Masons however are either both town or both very daring scum. But there is one possible way to find out. Masons typically don't move around during the Night. @Frostburn and Pooka: is that true in your case too? Or do you have any active powers on top of your Masonry?
No, I'm not role fishing. You already claimed. But just in case we have some Watcher/Tracker roles it would be helpful for them to know whether seeing you move would be a scum tell.
We cannot move during the Night. Aside from the ability to communicate during the Night, we're mechanically no better than vanilla Towns.
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FrostburnPhoenix: It's quite obvious no one died.
Someone might. Please, stop double-posting. You have been already warned so you are now marked by Yog. Help Celice with your song choices until the end of the Day so she can keep you alive.


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Lifthrasil: Question to all: I notice that I don't really manage to keep up with everything that is written here. Much less, catch up with what was written Yesterday. I don't manage more than skimming via mobile. This means, I can't really analyse systematically which in turn means, I'm not that useful to Town as someone at full capacity would be. Should I ask for a sub, or should I continue to contribute what I can, even if that's less than usual?
Unfortunately, based on pre-game attempts after RookieTerror's pulling out I'm pretty certain we're not getting a replacement. Everyone is busy with RL stuff and can't put in the time right now. That's why AZ's failure to appear would have meant his removal from the game. If you think some timeout would make a difference for you and the rest don't mind the delay we could put the game on hold for a bit?


==========================================


VOTE COUNT (up to #526)

Catte 1 - Microfish_1 (#522)

Ambiti0nZ and FrostburnPhoenix (MARKED BY YOG) - they have to list a favorite song + its performer in each post until the end of D2 (assuming survival till then) or get devoured (mod-killed). It can be any musical piece, it doesn't have to feature spoken word.

Closest to lynch - Catte at L-5. It takes 6 to lynch.

Not voting - JoeSapphire, Lifthrasil, FrostburnPhoenix, Catte, Ambiti0nZ, Catventurer, detective_razza, Vitek, PookaMustard

Day 2 will end in approximately 4.5 days.
I did not too deep read of DK over the night and I think it is more likely they were town than mafia so I would rather go with assumption there are 2 mafia left. Ok, ther eis not much to confirm his town, but ther is nothing damning. Sure, he townread scene, but that's not automatically scummy on its own.
The fact there was no kill could on the other hand hint at one mafia left. Or they simply don't have any RB or strongman.

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Catventurer: Actually, I think we need to lynch Joe next even though it will take me out too just to find out if the Lovers are Mafia/Town or Town/Town.
Wow, what kind of love is this?

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Microfish_1: I know i said i thought the louvers would be the best, but then as i read things, I think catte was worse.
I could vote for Joe or Catv, but I'm not convinced they are necessarily "1 town / 1 scum." i think lunching one of them (still can't decide which is scummier) look like our 2nd best option rn to maximize infomartion. Even if both flip at once it is worth it if one flips scum. but i think Catte is worse than either of the so-called lovers.
I had more thoughts but they got lost in the swamp of my very tired brain.
be it known that my posts tend to be "real-time reactions" as i catch up, not lengthy plotted dissertations.
Just go look at scene's post this game and tell me if you can imagine him and CatV to be buddies.
It is noteworthy scene pursued Frostburn for most of the D1, second only to CatV. He voted Phoenix most of the time, only switching to me near EoD. That's significantly in favour of Frostburn. Scene backed down right after FP claimed, very hastliy but other than that, it makes Frostburn looks better.

Scene also said he would be willing to vote Lift near EoD, when I mentioned my suspicion of Lift, without mentioning him much before, so it makes look Lift look somewhat better as well I think.

Good way to rule out all my suspects. Go, me!
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Microfish_1: catching up, Vitek looked sus until that CC that led to hitting scum, so he has to be town, no matter how sus he looks.
UNLESS. Vitek was distancing/bussing. Will keep this in mind.
Can you name specifically what made/makes me so much sus?
howdy folks,
i’m going to say my read is more likely on frost and pooka (tho that’s mainly bc i suspect frost, i actually don’t really suspect pooka but i kinda have to if i suspect frost ykykykyk)

i don’t suspect lift due to evidence from my night action but i could just be naïve and not be aware of any scum roles without a kill ability.

i don’t really want to kill the lovers, even if joe is being a lil susssssssssyyyyyyyyyyy
Senbonzakura by Lindsey Stirling

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Vitek:
VERY VERY interesting. Yeah if Dedo asked for a night action there were definitely night actions.

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Microfish_1:
I Was about to say that the linked roles inflated it, but it appears lift is a PR according to razza and you are a PR for not being surprised at role madness, so it probably is role madness.

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PookaMustard:
When did Catv ever say he knows joe is town? (Also mason chat response, razza is a she BTW and most likely Joe's daughter)

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detective_razza: i don’t suspect lift due to evidence from my night action but i could just be naïve and not be aware of any scum roles without a kill ability.
Seriously.
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FrostburnPhoenix: When did Catv ever say he knows joe is town? (Also mason chat response, razza is a she BTW and most likely Joe's daughter)
Emphasis mine:
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Catventurer: Hello. I am town-aligned. My power role gives makes me the very special friend of another player in the game, who is also town-aligned. I am not permitted to contact or talk to this person at night. However this type of knowledge always has it's price, and here's the price I have to pay for it:
Razza most likely Joe's daughter? To quote Joe:

:o

(if true, didn't know joe was a dad!)
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FrostburnPhoenix: and most likely Joe's daughter
WTF JOE!!
Electric Daisy Violin by Lindsey Stirling

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PookaMustard: Emphasis mine:
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Catventurer: Hello. I am town-aligned. My power role gives makes me the very special friend of another player in the game, who is also town-aligned. I am not permitted to contact or talk to this person at night. However this type of knowledge always has it's price, and here's the price I have to pay for it:
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PookaMustard: Razza most likely Joe's daughter? To quote Joe:

:o

(if true, didn't know joe was a dad!)
Okay, so it seems he misunderstood his role like he said. Vitek's night action leaves little doubt both lovers are town.

There is a small doubt however, and I would like to clear it up now rather than later. So, if there are 2 scum, how do they decide on a night kill? For example, if one thinks the other is a tragic lover, do they have an opportunity to night kill them?

(Joe calling razza kiddo post #93, among other things led me to believe that. But you'd have to ask them yourself if you wanted to know for certain.)
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Microfish_1: catching up, Vitek looked sus until that CC that led to hitting scum, so he has to be town, no matter how sus he looks.
UNLESS. Vitek was distancing/bussing. Will keep this in mind.
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Vitek: Can you name specifically what made/makes me so much sus?
I didn't take notes at 2 am when I caught up on the game, will try to answer this when I get back to my pc
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PookaMustard:
Let me be more clear - I was comparing Frost versus myself. He's rather adamant that I should be lynched, on the basis of either 1) Lovers must be Mafia/Mafia or 2) Mafia is going to kill Lovers anyway. It has been HIS behavior (not mine) that has been suspicious on Day 1 and HIS behavior (not mine) on Day 2 that has been more suspicious.

1) You pointed out yourself that Joe is going to be a Day 2 problem for me because I'm not the one who looks suspicious.

2) Vitek commented that he had used his Doctor power on me during Night 1 and also said in post #528 that he couldn't imagine Scene and myself being buddies based on our Day 1 interactions.

3) Reclassifying me as suspicious and putting me at the top of the mafia list for Frost's benefit is only going to help Mafia when I am revealed to be Town Lover.

4) If Joe is Town Lover also, it is going to create problems for Frost and yourself by association on Day 3.

5) Even if Joe is revealed to be Mafia (and the game does not end - meaning Koba was Town), the actual mafia might exploit Frost's behavior to suggest that we have four mafia in the game where Frost and yourself and the remaining mafia. I would suggest spending some Night 2 time being prepared to address this and nip it in the butt fast on Day 3.


Also as I said previously - because I would put Joe at the upper end of the suspect list and will not survive him being lynched, I am throwing all my thoughts out there. I will go so far as to say that Joe is among the people that we should very seriously consider lynching today.


If the two of you really are Masons, Frost needs to shut the **** up, follow your lead, and stop acting like the most valuable player for team mafia. He needs to not make lists calling me the most scum player - especially when he says dumb crap like how Scene looked 90% Town to him, Lovers should be lynched because we're Mafia/Mafia, Lovers should be lynched because mafia will kill us anyway (meaning don't even try hunt for mafia, just lynch the town), and admits that he never thought the mafia he voted to lynch were actually mafia.

If I was a Mason paired off with Frost, I'd be pissed with him at this point. For this reason, I'm going to say that you have earned the right to smack Frost across the back of the head during your night 2 regardless of alignment - town or mafia. If you really are Masons, please smack him for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCsGCpeoOJ0

(^._.^)ノ


He's said at least twice that Lovers should be lynched on the basis that the mafia will kill us anyway. This comes off as thinking that we should stop looking for mafia and instead lynch the town based on who we think the mafia will kill next. This is a pro-Mafia strategy and has the Town playing to loose. It also suggests that despite all his posturing that the Lovers must be Mafia/Mafia that he actually thinks we're Town/Town.

Assuming that all of these people are all town-aligned, Frost-logic would mean that these are the only people we should consider lynching today:
1) myself plus Joe - two town for the price of one
2) Vitek - doctor
3) Razza - unknown power role
4) Pooka - the smart Mason


No more talk of lynching based on who the mafia is going to kill. I am not saying please. We should only be lynching based on who is most likely to be mafia.


I have said multiple times now that if Joe looks suspicious, lynch him. Don't worry about me. I will not spite vote anyone in the future regardless of the outcome. However I should not be lynched on the basis that Frost wants to do the mafia's work for them.

The fact that we are even having this debate at all in the first place is why the "Masons" look like they could be mafia posing as masons and not actually masons. We're wasting time discussing things that should not even be an issue - should we lynch people suspicious of being mafia or should we lynch town the mafia will kill anyway. While we are doing this, we are also not discussing who is most likely to be mafia.


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Catventurer: I have no night actions, which makes me far more expendable than loosing someone with an investigation or protective role. If Joe is mafia, you're going to have to do it anyway at some point for the good of the Town.
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Microfish_1: Do you still stand by this?
Yes. If Joe is mafia, he 100% needs to be lynched no matter what. It would mean that my role gave me immunity from the mafia taking any action against me. In order for the Town to win, I would need to be collateral damage. This is just a game. It's not like the actual mafia will roll up to my house to take me out if I'm taken out.


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FrostburnPhoenix: When did Catv ever say he knows joe is town? (Also mason chat response, razza is a she BTW and most likely Joe's daughter)
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PookaMustard: Emphasis mine:
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Catventurer: Hello. I am town-aligned. My power role gives makes me the very special friend of another player in the game, who is also town-aligned. I am not permitted to contact or talk to this person at night. However this type of knowledge always has it's price, and here's the price I have to pay for it:
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PookaMustard: Razza most likely Joe's daughter? To quote Joe:

:o

(if true, didn't know joe was a dad!)
Don't forget, I did say that I played three games then switched to co-modding about ten years ago on what is now a non-existent book nerd site. The way I was familiar with the Lovers where both die is that they have night communication (like Masons) and know that both are Town. I had misread the role as a different role we had on that site called Unrequited Lover, which is a town role that has too much info about another Town role due to the lack of night communication. My private message here didn't actually say Joe was town. I just made the assumption based on what I knew previously.

Like with Koba, there are some cultural differences with me. However I come from an environment where games felt like a polite tea party during the day. This doesn't mean that there's no bickering. It does mean that you thank people if they answer your questions and apologize later if you're Town and campaign against another player that turns out to be Town, etc.
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Catventurer: No more talk of lynching based on who the mafia is going to kill. I am not saying please. We should only be lynching based on who is most likely to be mafia.


I have said multiple times now that if Joe looks suspicious, lynch him. Don't worry about me. I will not spite vote anyone in the future regardless of the outcome. However I should not be lynched on the basis that Frost wants to do the mafia's work for them.

The fact that we are even having this debate at all in the first place is why the "Masons" look like they could be mafia posing as masons and not actually masons. We're wasting time discussing things that should not even be an issue - should we lynch people suspicious of being mafia or should we lynch town the mafia will kill anyway. While we are doing this, we are also not discussing who is most likely to be mafia.
I agree wholeheartedly. We fall into this trap. Every. Single. Time.

I remember a game I played where someone who was acting scummy claimed Mason. I forget who his other guy was, but it was blotunga. He explained himself day and night even after the claim but Town decided to lynch him, then he flipped...can you guess? Yes, Town Mason. This is the kind of situation I'm afraid of. Frost might have wacky opinions and thoughts, but he is Town. I don't want Town to fall into that same trap again, after just narrowly avoiding the no-lynch D1 trap. This is why Mafia always laugh to the bank in our games.

So I'd also like if the debate came to an end. At the moment I'm not super compelled to worry about you or Joe right now. Taking things slowly is always better with these affairs.

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Catventurer: Don't forget, I did say that I played three games then switched to co-modding about ten years ago on what is now a non-existent book nerd site. The way I was familiar with the Lovers where both die is that they have night communication (like Masons) and know that both are Town. I had misread the role as a different role we had on that site called Unrequited Lover, which is a town role that has too much info about another Town role due to the lack of night communication. My private message here didn't actually say Joe was town. I just made the assumption based on what I knew previously.
Ah, that makes sense now. Yeah, culture clash is pretty weird. The way we do our voting is usually one of the first things people crash into here, but I hadn't thought about how the Lovers thing might have worked elsewhere. Thanks for the insight.
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FrostburnPhoenix: I Was about to say that the linked roles inflated it, but it appears lift is a PR according to razza and you are a PR for not being surprised at role madness, so it probably is role madness.
oh no no, i don’t think lift has a PR, hence why i don’t think they’re mafia.
Ghost of a Smile by Egoist

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detective_razza: oh no no, i don’t think lift has a PR, hence why i don’t think they’re mafia.
Oh, ok, that makes more sense because I had DkKoba pegged as a vanilla town lying about having a PR so they would be night killed, which both protects real PRs and allows them to drop out of the game early because of the long days.


Just a reminder that the lovers are near confirmed town since everyone is ignoring it.