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Ugh, I hate that nmillar needs to be replaced because there's no way we can expect poor joppo to explain why nmillar did what he did.

Still, yay for joppo.
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my name is capitayn catte: Ugh, I hate that nmillar needs to be replaced because there's no way we can expect poor joppo to explain why nmillar did what he did.
I agree it's less than ideal but it beats straight up mod-killing the slot. Either way, as much as I would like to, I can't tolerate nmillar's repeated absence (and with zero notice from him both times) any longer.
Having trouble posting, and I'm not sure if it is the site or my post that is the source. Going to try posting in parts.

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Bookwyrm627: But yes, let's investigate your other comment. Do you propose that Nmillar is scum for not hammering Lift?
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GymHenson: The fact that they could've gotten us a hammer(albeit on a town player) & avoided a NK, yet didn't, rings all sorts of alarm bells for me.

Plus the fact that the hammers on mislynches(of town players) are often scrutinized near the most the next "day"......my theory is that they didn't want to draw heat if/when Lift had been revealed town, had they hammered, so they didn't hammer and instead NKd Lift during N2 instead(for whatever other reasons).
Interesting. The fact that the player could have hammered a townie and didn't means they are scum, because they are going to draw scrutiny if they hammer. As opposed to obviously being around end of day, having the chance to hammer and not doing so, and therefore drawing scrutiny when they promptly NK the townie they could have hammered.

Also, somehow a NK would have been avoided if they hammered?

Did I miss anything?

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Bookwyrm627: For the watching crowd: Blotunga and GH were both quick to continue pushing NMillar as scum.
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GymHenson: Maybe because some of NMillar's actions seem suspect/scummy?
Can you point to any previous time where you've suspected NMillar?

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GymHenson: Odd thing i've noticed(this bit is to you and for everyone else to read as well): Both you and NMillar seemed/seem awfully quick to point fingers at Blotunga....for things like trying to get us a wagon against Lift & being suspicious enough to vote for a suspect player(Blotunga voting Nmillar).
I point fingers where I seem scum behavior. I pointed fingers at NMillar previously for scum behavior and indicated what I thought was wrong each time. I'm now pointing fingers at you and Blotunga because you are both displaying highly suspect behavior. That's part of the job description of Townie.

Show me where NMillar is pointing fingers at Blotunga, please. Let's evaluate your claim.

A quick review shows Blotunga has only voted NMillar here on D3. You want to talk about quick finger pointing, let's talk about quick finger pointing. When and where has Blotunga expressed any suspicion of NMillar prior to this?

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Bookwyrm627: I've already commented on Blotunga pushing a specific someone based on the NK, and G "Every lynch is the same to me and I'm not helpful to town and scum aren't NK-ing me because I provide confusion" H is awfully quick to agree with him about this reasoning. Smells of collusion to me.
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GymHenson: Note that my first post here on D3 was a post I wrote/saved during N2 about me more or less suspecting NMillar for their failure to hammer on D2. Essentially, I suspected NMillar on my own and without any "help" from reading anything by Blotunga.

Btw, a question: Do you honestly think the two of us, if the scum team, would make ourselves so obvious like that(by doing things including voting so closely together and for the same player)?
You've been making a really big deal about not giving reads and opinions because you're always so wrong, and you'll defer to more experienced players because they're better, etc etc. Now suddenly you've achieved clarity in taking a position. I fully believe you wrote that during N2, and I htink you wrote it while discussing the plan for D3.

I don't think you thought it would be that obvious. I think ya'll saw that NMillar was on shaky ground, and that you could try pinning that NL on him for a mislynch.

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Microfish_1: hum. Would the two mafiaso collaborate so openly?
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GymHenson: I guess it would depend on my mood at the time. That said, i'd like to think I wouldn't be so dumb as to so quickly join a wagon recently formed by a fellow scum mate.
What is "quick" about it? You said yourself you thought NMillar already had 3 votes.
Part 2

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Microfish_1: For instance, i can see GH or Blot being scum and you being the other scum engaged in a bit of distancing right there. Not saying that the case against nmillar isn't valid; because his actions seem quite sus, but if he isn't scum, who is?
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GymHenson: My guess is the scum team is among NMillar/Catte/Bookwyrm.
Oh? Where does your suspicion of Catte come from? Can you show where you started expressing such a suspicion? Let's take a look and see what caused that suspicion.

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GymHenson: (interesting little note/musing: Bookwyrm more or less seemed[to me] to "hint" at being on the scum team in post 84[starting bit of that post], and then in post 563 recently they posted something by Yogsloth...who iirc stated they were scum near the start of a prior game as well....of course, might be chasing shadows again, so make of it what you will)
The fluff bit of Post 84 again? That's called Schmuck Bait. It was handcrafted to be absolutely true while leaving the reader just a touch uneasy because of a hint of malice, and it is something I enjoy doing occasionally. Goodness knows that I've pulled some shenanigans in my time, and some of them even worked. :D

As for me quoting Yogsloth, who was scum in some other game, as a possible scum hint? I was quoting from a Yog game where he was Town, and I was town, and we were getting together to end the scum.

Please tell me you can make a better case than this.

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Bookwyrm627: They may simply each have the plan in the front of their mind and so both are jumping the same direction without checking with each other first.
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GymHenson: Wot?!?

I think you forgot one "little" thing: Scum have day-chat this game

Sure, I haven't checked in on such much sometimes when scum in prior games, but I would usually try to at least ask my scum mate in such games for their input on things like this.
Oh sure, great, excellent. I'm glad that when they are pushed, the scum automatically check the scum chat and coordinate responses before they say anything in the game thread. /sarcasm

You make my point for me with this very own post. Scum may have day chat, but they don't filter everything through it before posting to the game thread. But if you'd like to make that assertion anyway, then we can ask why you suddenly vanished when I asked for you to expand on a game-related point you made, after we'd been posting back and forth relatively quickly. Did you "try to at least ask my scum mate in such games for their input on things like this"?

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Bookwyrm627: Sure, I can get convoluted, but ask yourself what I gain in this scenario and what I'm paying for it.
-If I'm buddies with Blotunga, why am I pushing for him instead of GH? Why am I trying to derail this wagon that's he's gotten going on a townie?
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GymHenson: Maybe because you're scum and NMillar is your scum buddy, and your plans are(in part) to shade Blotunga?
...
Maybe to cause confusion somehow?
Alright, let's pretend that NMillar and I are scum buddies. Why did we NK Lift after NMillar allowed a second NL, therefore confirming Lift as Town anyway? What's our play there?

What possible confusion for town is worth putting one of us under a potential spotlight when we could instead kill any of Pooka, Micro, or Catte and NOT get that attention while ALSO leaving Lift alive to be mislynched. Lift wasn't after either of us, and he was explicitly town reading NMillar after NMillar got into the game during the middle of D2.

When I'm scum, I don't NK people that support me or my allies. It just isn't good business.

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Bookwyrm627: If I'm scum (especially with Blotunga), where was I on D2 when Lift and GH were being run to the edge?
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GymHenson: If you're scum, you probably didn't want to hammer Lift and be scrutinized today(D3), and you probably don't want to remove the distraction from the game that is me.
I'll hammer and run with it even if it will draw scrutiny. I've done it in tighter games than this, as evidenced by the Rouge game that I linked earlier. Check the scum chat for that game; it is a short read.
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/evSU3pNRCmd

If you're such a good little distraction for town that I want to keep around, then why did I start pushing you now instead of just going for Blotunga and letting you continue to be a distraction?

Scrutiny does not particularly bother me, as evidenced by the fact that I'm out for the blood of two specific players.

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Bookwyrm627: Sure. If I don't come back to this after GH has answered, please prod me with a reminder.
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GymHenson: *Prod*
I think NMillar is town primarily because the slots on my scum list are currently full and he doesn't make sense as a scum partner for my primary scum candidate. Therefore, I don't know what he was doing sitting around at EOD and not hammering Lift. If I'm guessing, I'd guess that it was combination of not feeling Lift was particularly scummy (A quick review of previous posts shows Nmillar has Lift leaning town), wondering where on earth Lift was, and sudden suspicion of Blotunga's vote switch.

I've seen scum allow a NL instead of hammering a townie so I know it is possible, but in light of the current game state I'm not very inclined to believe this is what happened this game.

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Bookwyrm627: Of the Blotunga/GH/Nmillar trio, I think NMillar is the least likely among them to be scum.
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GymHenson: Why did I have a feeling you'd say something like that? ;)
Probably because I've actively called you and Blotunga out as the scum, with supporting reasons that include a review of voting history? :P

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Bookwyrm627: When did this start? My recollection is that unless Town believes they are around Mylo, we left the wagon at L-1 and if someone quick hammers then they explained themselves adequately the next Day or we strongly considered killing them for their indiscretion.
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my name is capitayn catte: GH covered it pretty well, L-1 can be quickhammered so we switched to stating intention to vote so we can say "consider yourself at L-1" rather than actually putting them there.
Sounds yucky to me. It lets someone apparently be on the wagon without actually having to be on the wagon when people start reviewing mod posts for votes.

It is what it is, I suppose.

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my name is capitayn catte: poke
So, what are your thoughts on everything? Still need you to play the game if you aren't going to blindly follow my lead.
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Pookina: I hate that you dropped off GH only to go after Lift and cause Wagon Confusion™️ at the very end of the day, but you raise a great point. nmillar had a chance to post, he's perfectly aware that Lift is L-1 away from being lunched (judging by how he recognized the vote swap), and...doesn't do anything.
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Pookina: Hmmm nobody called me out for disappearing for circa two days. Huehuehuehue, starts twirling mustache
Pooka, Pooka...Wherefore art thou Pooka? Not in art class again?
*Micro gets out a pair of scissors to go after that moustache.*

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Bookwyrm627: Sure, I can get convoluted, etc.
Sure. If I don't come back to this after GH has answered, please prod me with a reminder.
Note the emoticon at the end. The thought of yet another No Lunch, especially right now, is depressing.
Of the Blotunga/GH/Nmillar trio, I think NMillar is the least likely among them to be scum. This push on NMillar doesn't make a lot of sense being driven by his scum buddy. If Blotunga flips scum, then Nmillar is much more likely to be town.
Eh, i tried and WIFOM/Lamisty claims are about the only benefit--ie that very "why on earth would I do something silly like that."
Please answer.
Glad to know that you, too, are against another NoLunch. I'm hungry.
(Thanks for the links; I played in 60 iirc but don't recall it. An all-SK game? wow.)

And if Blotunga is town? What does this say about NMillar, or others?

So you're going for the most likely to be scum partner, if not the most blatant at being scum?

Gotcha.

Micro
Catte
GymHenson
nmillar
Pookina
blotunga
Bookwyrm627
trentonlf

So I did that excercise you stated (from memory) and in no particular order (just as the thoughts came to mind):

To be honest, I rarely have devoted the time (as I recall) to look for teams of scum; finding one is hard enough without looking for two at once. Maybe it is easier if you look for 2 at once but that so many more potential variables that, just...wow. Not Fun, by the sounds of it.

if NM, GH, and Blot are town, Trent stands out again for his "IC reveal yourself" bit. It's stuck in my craw ever since. I wasn't attacking on it as hard as I might if Lift had not been, because I thought Lift scum.
Bookwyrm as scum woud be partnered maybe with Catte? Maybe with Trent? The Lift NK though is just odd.
Lift was voting Trent/GH. Would one of them have lunched to reduce pressure? Yes? In this scenario, Lift was a safe NK for Bookwyrm and defense for trent. I believe you said you would. This is also finally the Bookwyrm I recall seeing in previous games. Possible scum but once again on fi-i-i-rrrrre.
Still uneasy (more so?) with how Bookwyrm let Lift do the talking for him early days now that we know lift is town. Much easier to let town post and then go "I concur" than making up new info.
Nmillar was lean-town according to Lift. Is he daring enough to NK his pseudo-ally? Just before switching to trent, however, Lift was voting Nmillar, so maybe it was defense?
Catte is voting GH, then not voting GH, then expressed outrage at the NL (not as strong as pooka, but it's still there). I could see him with Blot, Trent, or Book. I feel bad for him if he is scum with Nmillar.
Pooka-i have a hard time seeing as scum. A major tip of my hat to him if he is scum, as his outrage has seemed so town. He most certainly could be a master of LAMIST, but I'm uneasy. Just a hint of gut feeling. He defends trent, and attacks GH Could be paired with NM or Trent.

Remember my oft-quoted theory that one scum hides and one scum is vocal? It's been tweaked when I realized they might trade off roles at times.
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my name is capitayn catte: Still, yay for joppo.
Yes, iirc Joppo is always usually good in these games...let's see how they fare this time.

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my name is capitayn catte: Ugh, I hate that nmillar needs to be replaced because there's no way we can expect poor joppo to explain why nmillar did what he did.
Hope yer not suggesting we ease off on Joppo? o.0 ;)

As for me...i'm gonna keep my vote where it is(well unless something convincing enough changes my mind, like Joppo being/claiming IC).
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Bookwyrm627: Having trouble posting, and I'm not sure if it is the site or my post that is the source. Going to try posting in parts.
Forums were having hiccups before....seems to be fine now, though.

*crosses fingers AND toes*

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Bookwyrm627: Interesting. The fact that the player could have hammered a townie and didn't means they are scum, because they are going to draw scrutiny if they hammer. As opposed to obviously being around end of day, having the chance to hammer and not doing so, and therefore drawing scrutiny when they promptly NK the townie they could have hammered.
If someone who is scum hammers another player, it is seen by all(their hammer vote..etc etc) and then some other town players would then likely start to scrutinize said hammering player.

If they NK someone we don't know who did it and we're more in the dark, because it is done in secret & not in the game thread.

So it's much easier for a scum to NK a player and avoid scrutiny than it is to hammer them and avoid scrutiny.
(in Nmillar's case one of the main reasons eyes are on them[now Joppo] is because they stated wanting to avoid a NL and then caused one by not changing their vote)

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Bookwyrm627: Can you point to any previous time where you've suspected NMillar?
I suspect everyone in these games more or less equally unless things(like NMillar not hammering at end of D2) catch my eye. In NMillar's case, I started suspecting them more than usual after their end of D2 actions.

Questions to you, btw: If NMillar was/is town, why didn't they hammer Lift? Sure we now know they're town, but back then we didn't. If NMillar is town, and wanted to avoid another NL, then why didn't they?

And why did they use their last post of D2 to instead suspect Blotunga(and for Blotunga trying to help us get a lynch, no less)?

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Bookwyrm627: Show me where NMillar is pointing fingers at Blotunga, please. Let's evaluate your claim.
As said in the bit before this one.....NMillar's last post of D2.

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Bookwyrm627: A quick review shows Blotunga has only voted NMillar here on D3. You want to talk about quick finger pointing, let's talk about quick finger pointing. When and where has Blotunga expressed any suspicion of NMillar prior to this?
Likely after Nmillar's last post of D2(their seeming shading of Blotunga and not hammering Lift), I am guessing NMillar also went up markedly on Blotunga's suspect list as well.

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Bookwyrm627: You've been making a really big deal about not giving reads and opinions because you're always so wrong, and you'll defer to more experienced players because they're better, etc etc. Now suddenly you've achieved clarity in taking a position. I fully believe you wrote that during N2, and I htink you wrote it while discussing the plan for D3.
Sometimes I get a good gut feeling or something someone says/does is so obvious that even I notice it.

Also which is it: do you believe that i'm so green that I need to defer to other player's opinions/ideas, or that i'm scum and so good that I somehow came up with a good scheme to shade a town player?

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Bookwyrm627: Oh? Where does your suspicion of Catte come from? Can you show where you started expressing such a suspicion? Let's take a look and see what caused that suspicion.
Let's just call it another one of my hunches/gut feelings....of course, I could be wrong.

That said, I suspect you more atm(will list more on this at the end of this post).

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Bookwyrm627: The fluff bit of Post 84 again? That's called Schmuck Bait. It was handcrafted to be absolutely true while leaving the reader just a touch uneasy because of a hint of malice, and it is something I enjoy doing occasionally. Goodness knows that I've pulled some shenanigans in my time, and some of them even worked. :D
Yog did the same thing in a game(iirc).....said they were scum or implied as much near the start of a prior game.

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Bookwyrm627: You make my point for me with this very own post. Scum may have day chat, but they don't filter everything through it before posting to the game thread. But if you'd like to make that assertion anyway, then we can ask why you suddenly vanished when I asked for you to expand on a game-related point you made, after we'd been posting back and forth relatively quickly. Did you "try to at least ask my scum mate in such games for their input on things like this"?
As I said, I went to bed.....if you look back you'll notice my posts around then were very short.....I was so tired I couldn't think of what to write so I left them brief.

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Bookwyrm627: Alright, let's pretend that NMillar and I are scum buddies. Why did we NK Lift after NMillar allowed a second NL, therefore confirming Lift as Town anyway? What's our play there?

What possible confusion for town is worth putting one of us under a potential spotlight when we could instead kill any of Pooka, Micro, or Catte and NOT get that attention while ALSO leaving Lift alive to be mislynched. Lift wasn't after either of us, and he was explicitly town reading NMillar after NMillar got into the game during the middle of D2.
Dunno....but when we catch the scum team we'll be sure to ask them.

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Bookwyrm627: If you're such a good little distraction for town that I want to keep around, then why did I start pushing you now instead of just going for Blotunga and letting you continue to be a distraction?
To appear to be scum hunting, perhaps? And also because i'm focusing on the two of you a bit more as of late?

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Bookwyrm627: Probably because I've actively called you and Blotunga out as the scum, with supporting reasons that include a review of voting history? :P
My voting history is more NAI, as you likely well know, as it can change for any number of reasons whether i'm town or scum.

+++

Anyhoo: You seem to be shading me and trying to discredit my suspicions/theories ever since I started to suspect NMillar and also yourself recently...whereas before you didn't seem to do as much of such.

My bet: Both you and Nmillar are the scum team. If i'm right btw, y'all better do yourselves a favor and NK me tonight or(better yet) get others to lynch me today....just a suggestion....as I will be doing my best to get one of you lynched today and keeping a close eye on the other from now on.
====================================================================

nmillar has been replaced by Joppo. I have shifted the deadline by 24 hours to allow Joppo to pick up some speed.

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VOTE COUNT

Joppo 3 - blotunga (#535), Pookina (#537), GymHenson (#544)
blotunga 2 - trentonlf (#545), Bookwyrm627 (#563)

Not voting: Microfish_1, Catte, Joppo

With 8 players it takes 5 votes to achieve a lynch.

Joppo is closest to lynch at L-2.

Day 3 ends in approximately 5 days.
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dedoporno: nmillar has been replaced by Joppo. I have shifted the deadline by 24 hours to allow Joppo to pick up some speed.
Nice, i'll prepare him a cabin.

GH has his maid Svetlana, previously unseen till now(she's very shy & inconspicuous), prepare a cabin with clean bedding/linens/etc & a nice tray of tea and assorted pastries
Yeah, I have no excuse for disappearing for almost two days. Does getting a fresh game console count as an excuse though? But yeah, let's sort this stuff out.

First of all, it's obvious I ain't getting any explanations from nmillar anytime soon, judging by the PSA being a thing. So might as well unvote nmillar, for now. It would be interesting to see what Joppo would bring to nmillar's slot (and hey I'm happy to be back with him, at least this game is getting a bit better).

unvote nmillar

Alright let's respond to some stuff quickly.

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Microfish_1: Pooka, Pooka...Wherefore art thou Pooka? Not in art class again?
*Micro gets out a pair of scissors to go after that moustache.*
Good catch, honestly. That's what I want to see.

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GymHenson: Yes, iirc Joppo is always usually good in these games...let's see how they fare this time.
Not all the times, but he is fun to play or spectate with!

Hmm, Bookwyrm brought up many good points against GH, but here's this one that is making it for me, this post:
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GymHenson: EBWOP
(to all)

I had a theory as to why scum have allowed me to live this long(besides me being a big distraction to their own efforts/etc): I might've gotten something right in my suspicions/focusing, and they're leaving me alive so that I seem more suspect to every other town player.....leading to me eventually either being lynched by my fellow town or at the very least have my suspicions/etc disregarded more than usual.
GymHenson. Why did you feel the need to state this? Like, at all? On a quick skim, nobody even questioned why you were still alive, so why did you bring up this point out of nowhere?

Bookwyrm does have a point about your wagon being too easy, but honestly I don't care if it's easy now. You're feeling real off to me now. Congratulations, you've earned a new vote!

vote GymHenson

Hmmmmm... I think that'll be enough for tonight. I'll see how this all develops tomorrow. Now to the part where I produce the movie quote...

"Fifteen hundred years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was flat. And fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow." - Agent K, Men in Black, 1997
Sorry been out of it today, been sleeping most of it. Finally got my results back and I do have Covid. This will not stop me from playing, and I will stay invested. I am ok, just coughing a lot, my chest hurts, and I'm tired.

As of right now I am content where my vote is. No interest in a Bookwyrm or GH lynch, I like how both are pushing and questioning. I am scared of Book as I saw his last scum game and he is of the same caliber as Yogs and Lift who tend to fool me, but if he is scum (I really don't think he is) then he's stepped his scum game up even more.
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trentonlf: Sorry been out of it today, been sleeping most of it. Finally got my results back and I do have Covid. This will not stop me from playing, and I will stay invested. I am ok, just coughing a lot, my chest hurts, and I'm tired.

As of right now I am content where my vote is. No interest in a Bookwyrm or GH lynch, I like how both are pushing and questioning. I am scared of Book as I saw his last scum game and he is of the same caliber as Yogs and Lift who tend to fool me, but if he is scum (I really don't think he is) then he's stepped his scum game up even more.
first off, please take all the time you need to feel better ASAP. your health is more important than the game.
Hello mates.

Not much I can talk about the game right now, as I still have a bit of reading to do. Not only I have to catch up after I stopped reading the game I also have to analyze everything from the previous days that involved nmillar with the knowledge of his alignment that I only got now.

Anyway, I am glad I can join you guys for half a game again.
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Pookina: Not all the times, but he is fun to play or spectate with!
I meant that too. :)

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Pookina: GymHenson. Why did you feel the need to state this? Like, at all? On a quick skim, nobody even questioned why you were still alive, so why did you bring up this point out of nowhere?
I was musing a bit(I tend to do that or go off on other tangents from time to time, as you well know ;)), and also: in case I somehow get lynched or NKd, perhaps maybe mayhaps my fellow town can maybe use that to figure out who the scum team is.

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Pookina: Bookwyrm does have a point about your wagon being too easy, but honestly I don't care if it's easy now. You're feeling real off to me now. Congratulations, you've earned a new vote!
I was wondering when I would get another wagon started on me.....took long enough ;D
(jokes aside, based on prior games you know how I act while scum....so I ask: do I seem like I did back in prior games where I was scum[like that time we were scum together]?)
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my name is capitayn catte: GH covered it pretty well, L-1 can be quickhammered so we switched to stating intention to vote so we can say "consider yourself at L-1" rather than actually putting them there.
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Bookwyrm627: Sounds yucky to me. It lets someone apparently be on the wagon without actually having to be on the wagon when people start reviewing mod posts for votes.

It is what it is, I suppose.
True, but we had more than one accidental hammer and I think this is better than that.

As you say, it is what it is.

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my name is capitayn catte: poke
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Bookwyrm627: So, what are your thoughts on everything? Still need you to play the game if you aren't going to blindly follow my lead.
I guess I'll just blindly follow your lead.

lolle

TBH I was waiting for nmillar to come back so I could decide whether to vote for him or not. Now he's being replaced we won't get any kind of meaningful explanation so I'm not really sure.

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GymHenson: Hope yer not suggesting we ease off on Joppo? o.0 ;)
Kind of the opposite to be honest, I'm thinking we might have to policy lynch Joppo. Nmillar did something highly suspicious - he might be able to explain it if he were here but he isn't. Joppo isn't going to be able to explain it, but we can't just give him a pass for it either.

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trentonlf: Sorry been out of it today, been sleeping most of it. Finally got my results back and I do have Covid. This will not stop me from playing, and I will stay invested. I am ok, just coughing a lot, my chest hurts, and I'm tired.
Damn, I'm sorry to hear that. Look after yourself!

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joppo: Hello mates.

Not much I can talk about the game right now, as I still have a bit of reading to do. Not only I have to catch up after I stopped reading the game I also have to analyze everything from the previous days that involved nmillar with the knowledge of his alignment that I only got now.

Anyway, I am glad I can join you guys for half a game again.
Hey Joppo! Boy do you have your work cut out for you once you're caught up. :P