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General discussionGOG Mafia #62 - The Pwen(824 posts)(824 posts)
(824 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 08, 2019
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blotunga: I'm not convinced trent is scum though, since agent had no reason to give up his scumbuddies. Nor does that put trent in an extaordinary light, in case it's all a big WIFOM.
It's not like he's anywhere near being hammered so I'm content to leave my vote on him. To me it seems improbable that agentcarr would have done what he did if trent was town. With town!trent there's only two ways agent's plan could have played out and both of them involve agent getting lynched. I'd like to believe agentcarr is smarter than that!

The only way agentcarr's claim makes sense to me is if trent was scum and agentcarr
a) Expected trent to play along
b) Expected one of them to get lynched and was banking on the other one being "cleared"

Thus for me the balance of probability is in favour of trent being scum.
Posted October 08, 2019
if agent died and was revealed as a scum than people could go back to this post.
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agentcarr16: I rolled scum to start the game, but got switched when dedoporno and Microfish_1 left the game. Dedo was Scum with me, as was trentonlf. I don't know why he decided to reroll when he could have just done what ZFR suggested (turn a town into a scum).
They would see that agent, dedo and trent were scum. If joe only re rolled dedos spot (since he wasn’t able to play) than agent has written an almost perfect scum list for town. But if trent bussed agent than it would clear him allowing trent to be safe as town searched for the other two scum.

The ZFR night kill convinces me that he was on the right track with his theory

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ZFR: Here is my theory:
Joe didn't reroll all scum. All he did was reroll a single Town to replace micro/dedo (possibly with a minor other role balancing change). So agent thinks of a clever gambit: he'll out his team and claim it's changed because no one would expect scum to do it, right? Only he has no way of communicating it to his buddies, and when trent comes along he thinks "What on earth is that idiot doing??? He's outing us all just like that?" and instead of playing along he decides to bus agent.
So that's where they are now. They can't retract their statements now, so the best they can hope for is that when one of them dies, the other gets good Town points.
vote trent
Posted October 08, 2019
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PookaMustard: I wonder why Agent pulled off that scheme, given that none of us had even realized he fullclaimed this early, which seems to be the catalyst for launching this scheme, as he figured he went down. Because of how it went, I'm actually less inclined to lynch Trent, as I don't think Agent would pull off such WIFOM with his scumbuddy this early.

ZFR thankfully isn't a power role, but that brings me to my next question. Did ZFR say anything that drew the attention of the scum?
The 1st bit: I agree....if Trent was scum I don't think he'd expose himself this early by getting the lynch ball rolling on agent & possibly risk 2 scum getting lynched within a few game days.

2nd bit: I will be going back over ZFR's posts later, but it could've just been random...who knows at this point.

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SirPrimalform: Right. I've been thinking about this through the Night (or action phase if you prefer) and I am in favour of lynching Trent next unless someone has a specific reason not to (more than just "I believe him!").

Firstly, the fact that agentcarr turned out to be exactly who he initially claimed to be suggests that the mafia were not re-rolled except where necessary. Thus I'll do away with the scum/town, town/town, scum/scum etc. terminology.

If we have town!trent, agentcarr had to know that town!trent would contradict him and cause a "lynch one, then the other if found to be lying" situation. The best possible outcome agentcarr could have hoped for with town!trent is that we lynched trent first and agentcarr second. It doesn't strike me as a particularly good incentive, I'd like to give agentcarr a bit more credit than this.

What I think is far more likely is that we have scum!trent and agentcarr was hoping for him to go "Ah yes, I used to be mafia but I'm on the straight and narrow now! *wink wink*". Frankly this is risky anyway, but it's a lot less stupid than putting yourself into a "lynch one then other" situation at the beginning of the game*

Thus, vote trent
As I said above, I do not think a scum Trent would put themselves into the spotlight so easily/readily. As such, I am inclined to believe he is town without further proof against such.

======================

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SirPrimalform: Wow, I was in a rush and really cocked up post 325. EBWOP:

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SirPrimalform: Aside from what nmillar said, the whole thing about trying to remove his mask and it not being a mask seemed like a bit of a clue to me.
Also, agentcarr was revealed to be "Watcher of Kalunga", which he'd already claimed at the beginning of the game and admitted that "Watcher of Kalunga" was a mafia role. So no, he was not a town watcher.
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SirPrimalform:
I am guessing the above meant to say Post 235?

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As for my own thoughts, I am wondering if any scum added their vote to the wagon against agent to make themselves appear to be town......in addition to checking ZFR's posts I will try to analyze the wagon a bit later on.
Posted October 08, 2019
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GameRager: I am guessing the above meant to say Post 235?
Yes, in case that wasn't obvious enough, I did indeed mean "Post 235" in Post 329.

;P
Posted October 08, 2019
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GameRager: I am guessing the above meant to say Post 235?
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SirPrimalform: Yes, in case that wasn't obvious enough, I did indeed mean "Post 235" in Post 329.

;P
What about the other reply I made to you? No comment? Ok then. :|
Posted October 08, 2019
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SirPrimalform: Yes, in case that wasn't obvious enough, I did indeed mean "Post 235" in Post 329.

;P
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GameRager: What about the other reply I made to you? No comment? Ok then. :|
I found your argument completely unconvincing. Well I guess if you really want a reply I wonder what you mean by trent putting himself in the spotlight? In my eyes it was agent who shone the spotlight on trent.
Posted October 08, 2019
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GameRager: What about the other reply I made to you? No comment? Ok then. :|
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SirPrimalform: I found your argument completely unconvincing. Well I guess if you really want a reply I wonder what you mean by trent putting himself in the spotlight? In my eyes it was agent who shone the spotlight on trent.
By Trent(iirc) starting the ball rolling on the agent lynch train he basically set himself up to be more visible....would another scum do that and possibly risk 2 scum being lynched in two game days? That is what I meant.
Posted October 08, 2019
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SirPrimalform: I found your argument completely unconvincing. Well I guess if you really want a reply I wonder what you mean by trent putting himself in the spotlight? In my eyes it was agent who shone the spotlight on trent.
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GameRager: By Trent(iirc) starting the ball rolling on the agent lynch train he basically set himself up to be more visible....would another scum do that and possibly risk 2 scum being lynched in two game days? That is what I meant.
You mean after agentcarr had already "outed" him?
Posted October 08, 2019
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GameRager: By Trent(iirc) starting the ball rolling on the agent lynch train he basically set himself up to be more visible....would another scum do that and possibly risk 2 scum being lynched in two game days? That is what I meant.
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SirPrimalform: You mean after agentcarr had already "outed" him?
Do you mean the post claiming that he(agent) and trent/others were scum and rerolled? Or something else?
Posted October 08, 2019
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SirPrimalform: You mean after agentcarr had already "outed" him?
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GameRager: Do you mean the post claiming that he(agent) and trent/others were scum and rerolled? Or something else?
This will probably be easier if you point me to the post you mean.

Please can you show me "Trent(iirc) starting the ball rolling on the agent lynch train" so I know we're talking about the same post?
Posted October 08, 2019
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GameRager: Do you mean the post claiming that he(agent) and trent/others were scum and rerolled? Or something else?
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SirPrimalform: This will probably be easier if you point me to the post you mean.

Please can you show me "Trent(iirc) starting the ball rolling on the agent lynch train" so I know we're talking about the same post?
Looking back, I believe it is post 138 by Trent....of course now I also see you voted first for Agent, and then Trent took the ball and ran with it(convincing others in the process).....still, I do not think a scum would "out" themselves in such a manner, but I am willing to admit I could be wrong on this.

For now I am not voting for him for that reason and also a bit because of his "willingness" to possibly jump ship due to the setup talk from much earlier. If I see something convincing enough I might vote later on, however, if need be.
Posted October 08, 2019
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SirPrimalform: This will probably be easier if you point me to the post you mean.

Please can you show me "Trent(iirc) starting the ball rolling on the agent lynch train" so I know we're talking about the same post?
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GameRager: Looking back, I believe it is post 138 by Trent....of course now I also see you voted first for Agent, and then Trent took the ball and ran with it(convincing others in the process).....still, I do not think a scum would "out" themselves in such a manner, but I am willing to admit I could be wrong on this.

For now I am not voting for him for that reason and also a bit because of his "willingness" to possibly jump ship due to the setup talk from much earlier. If I see something convincing enough I might vote later on, however, if need be.
Good, we're talking about the same post at least. I don't see trent putting himself in the spotlight though, his post is a direct response to being put in the spotlight by agentcarr.

You don't think that agentcarr would have done this if trent was scum, but I ask why he would do this if trent was town? As I said before, there were only two outcomes to agentcarr pointing the finger at town!trent and they both result in agent getting lynched.

So what I see in the post you mention, is scum!trent going "What the hell is he doing!?" before putting a distance/bus vote on agentcarr.
Posted October 08, 2019
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SirPrimalform: Good, we're talking about the same post at least. I don't see trent putting himself in the spotlight though, his post is a direct response to being put in the spotlight by agentcarr.

You don't think that agentcarr would have done this if trent was scum, but I ask why he would do this if trent was town? As I said before, there were only two outcomes to agentcarr pointing the finger at town!trent and they both result in agent getting lynched.

So what I see in the post you mention, is scum!trent going "What the hell is he doing!?" before putting a distance/bus vote on agentcarr.
Well then he kept himself in the spotlight by voting so quickly.

Imo if he was scum he would've waited a bit before adding his vote, but I somewhat see your points as well.
Posted October 08, 2019
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SirPrimalform: Good, we're talking about the same post at least. I don't see trent putting himself in the spotlight though, his post is a direct response to being put in the spotlight by agentcarr.

You don't think that agentcarr would have done this if trent was scum, but I ask why he would do this if trent was town? As I said before, there were only two outcomes to agentcarr pointing the finger at town!trent and they both result in agent getting lynched.

So what I see in the post you mention, is scum!trent going "What the hell is he doing!?" before putting a distance/bus vote on agentcarr.
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GameRager: Well then he kept himself in the spotlight by voting so quickly.

Imo if he was scum he would've waited a bit before adding his vote, but I somewhat see your points as well.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on agentcarr's motivation for accusing town!trent. What do you think he might have been hoping to achieve?
Posted October 08, 2019
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GameRager: Well then he kept himself in the spotlight by voting so quickly.

Imo if he was scum he would've waited a bit before adding his vote, but I somewhat see your points as well.
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SirPrimalform: I'd like to hear your thoughts on agentcarr's motivation for accusing town!trent. What do you think he might have been hoping to achieve?
If Trent is town Agent would have known/knew this(as he still was scum and would know who changed alignments to town) & likely wanted to cast shade/suspicion on a town to get them removed/lynched.
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General discussionGOG Mafia #62 - The Pwen(824 posts)(824 posts)
(824 posts)