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Yes of course. But still I don't like JMich pushing so hard for a role claim. Do you still see JMich as leaning town? And why? I think with all his role fishing and promoting no-lynch he is quite clearly scum. Of course he wraps his intentions in nice reasoning, he's good with words after all, but his intentions are still anti-town.
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Lifthrasil: Yes of course. But still I don't like JMich pushing so hard for a role claim. Do you still see JMich as leaning town? And why? I think with all his role fishing and promoting no-lynch he is quite clearly scum. Of course he wraps his intentions in nice reasoning, he's good with words after all, but his intentions are still anti-town.
Yeah, not so sure now. I do like his reasoning on a lot of things, but I'm not sure on his methods and pushing things when they don't really need to be pushed...

I just feel like he's made a couple of unpopular suggestions and posts and now he's being used as a scapegoat. The only problem with that thought, is that most of the people pushing him I have (or had) leaning town. So I'm not sure if I've just been completely taken in by him, or if my other readings are off.
For me the only people I have as town and will not vote for at any point unless it can be shown they really are scum (although I find that unlikely) are adalibooks, yogosloth, Lifthrasil, and Robbeasy. Anyone else ( to me) is still potential scum, some more than others, until more info is known.

That being said I will examine posts again and see if anything really stands out to me, but what I am really hoping is we can get some good info tonight that someone can share.
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trentonlf: For me the only people I have as town and will not vote for at any point unless it can be shown they really are scum (although I find that unlikely) are adalibooks, yogosloth, Lifthrasil, and Robbeasy. Anyone else ( to me) is still potential scum, some more than others, until more info is known.

That being said I will examine posts again and see if anything really stands out to me, but what I am really hoping is we can get some good info tonight that someone can share.
That's what I'm hoping for too.

Thank you for your vote of confidence. Despite my earlier doubts of Lift I now have him fairly strongly town, as for yogs and Robb I'm not so sure. I do still think they're probably town, but I'm far from certain.

And I'm not sure we can risk leaving Robb alive. In fact I'm wondering if we shouldn't just lynch him and see what the flip situation is... I know that's probably an unpopular suggestion, but it's not like his role is much use now that scum know what he is and seeing as we've hit two anti town roles I think we could risk taking a lynch to see if we get flips or not. Plus we don't really know whether he is town or not, so leaving him alive is a risk anyway.
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adaliabooks: I'm particularly suspicious of those who stayed off the wagon, as it was pretty clear he was scummy as hell (which turned out to be the case so none of that "oh he seemed scummy to you but not to me" nonsense, hindsight shows his behaviour was indeed scummy and those who didn't think so either missed it completely or missed it on purpose).
I am a bit curious as to the very end, the hammer. And why it seemed like some where afraid to be the last vote.
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adaliabooks: Let's look at this again. HijacK was there when Flub posted the morning post, he knew who had died and presumably had the results of his own actions. A day later he posts saying he thinks he knew what happened to Twilight.
Why did it take him a whole day to realise that having followed one of the dead players and got a result might be useful info?
Fair enough deciding to share that is another step, and making a connection to what actually happened is too, but when HijacK posted it looked like the idea had just come to him that it could be of any interest at all.
I know. The whole presentation along with the late execution was what got me thinking one thing first and brought disappointment later on when the actual revelation came out. I'm not too sure what this means, but it's definitely something to have in mind in future.
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adaliabooks: That's what I'm hoping for too.

Thank you for your vote of confidence. Despite my earlier doubts of Lift I now have him fairly strongly town, as for yogs and Robb I'm not so sure. I do still think they're probably town, but I'm far from certain.

And I'm not sure we can risk leaving Robb alive. In fact I'm wondering if we shouldn't just lynch him and see what the flip situation is... I know that's probably an unpopular suggestion, but it's not like his role is much use now that scum know what he is and seeing as we've hit two anti town roles I think we could risk taking a lynch to see if we get flips or not. Plus we don't really know whether he is town or not, so leaving him alive is a risk anyway.
For me I don't see the reasoning to lynch Robb. It comes down to whether you believe him or not, and if you do then he is town in your eyes. Lynching a townie is counter productive to winning. His role is PGO just leave him be and let him cast his vote. if you don't believe him then you should vote for him, not much else could do.

@Sage
JMich and HypersmoniacLive both asked if people would wait on the hammer until we had heard from Hijack and CSPVG. It got to the point with Ix where it was pointless to wait anymore with how he was acting so I dropped the hammer.

Flub, have you heard from CSPVG?
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adaliabooks: I'm particularly suspicious of those who stayed off the wagon, as it was pretty clear he was scummy as hell (which turned out to be the case so none of that "oh he seemed scummy to you but not to me" nonsense, hindsight shows his behaviour was indeed scummy and those who didn't think so either missed it completely or missed it on purpose).
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Sage103082: I am a bit curious as to the very end, the hammer. And why it seemed like some where afraid to be the last vote.
This is exactly what I thought. I know people said to wait, but it felt like even once everyone had checked in (bar CSPVG) everyone was waiting around for someone else to hammer. Which is why I thought there might be scum worried if they hammered it would give a flip (and possibly reveal their alignment).

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trentonlf: For me I don't see the reasoning to lynch Robb. It comes down to whether you believe him or not, and if you do then he is town in your eyes. Lynching a townie is counter productive to winning. His role is PGO just leave him be and let him cast his vote. if you don't believe him then you should vote for him, not much else could do.
I do think he's town, but wonder if we might risk lynching him to see what happens with flips. I know it's not a very townie thought, but at least it would give us a clue about flips. I know it's not a particularly honourable thought but the waters are going to get pretty muddy soon if we don't figure out the flip system. Ix was my last best bet for scum. I'm really not sure on anyone else, and I don't think we can rely on them all confessing like RWarehall and Ix did.
Hopefully in the morning we will have some good info, but if not I think we need to consider our options.
Say we lynch JMich tomorrow, for whatever reason. Maybe he claims something, nothing too major to stop him being lynched so we lynch him anyway. How do we know? I'm less certain of JMich's towniness, but I'm far from certain he is scum.

I know I will be jumped on for even suggesting it, but I think we need to at least consider sacrificing one of us (and I'm happy for it to be me if it comes to that) to clarify the flip situation.
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adaliabooks: I know I will be jumped on for even suggesting it, but I think we need to at least consider sacrificing one of us (and I'm happy for it to be me if it comes to that) to clarify the flip situation.
Be careful as this would quickly turn into a mass claim in order to sort out whose role is the least useful.

Of course, that might be the best idea, and then we sort out the liars.
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adaliabooks: I know I will be jumped on for even suggesting it, but I think we need to at least consider sacrificing one of us (and I'm happy for it to be me if it comes to that) to clarify the flip situation.
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yogsloth: Be careful as this would quickly turn into a mass claim in order to sort out whose role is the least useful.

Of course, that might be the best idea, and then we sort out the liars.
Well we already know Robb's role isn't much use (hence why I suggested him). And mine isn't a huge amount of use either, so I'd be happy to sacrifice myself.

The other problem is it needs to be someone we think is town, so if they don't flip we know it is the method of kill that is the problem.

But the whole issue might get sorted in the night depending on how the NK (or NKs) go and what flips we do or don't get.
Let's not do the massive role claiming, all the role claiming so far has caused more confusion and needless debate than it has helped. Let's wait until the next day cycle and see if any useful information is brought to light, then we can decide on what course to pursue.
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trentonlf: Let's not do the massive role claiming, all the role claiming so far has caused more confusion and needless debate than it has helped. Let's wait until the next day cycle and see if any useful information is brought to light, then we can decide on what course to pursue.
Yeah, no need for any role claiming yet. Especially while Night actions are still being decided...

There's probably not much more to say until the night actions come back in and we can see what course to pursue.
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adaliabooks: I can think of another, which is that HijacK and Twilight were scum buddies, so when Twilight died HijacK knew who he had visited and thought to use it to false claim Tracker / Watcher and maybe get us to lynch our PGO in the process.
I find it funny you think of all these scenarios yet other possibilities skip you. Also, wasn't this scenario already discussed by crinstingale? I'll have to go back and look it up. Sounds awfully familiar.
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adaliabooks: I can think of another, which is that HijacK and Twilight were scum buddies, so when Twilight died HijacK knew who he had visited and thought to use it to false claim Tracker / Watcher and maybe get us to lynch our PGO in the process.
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HijacK: I find it funny you think of all these scenarios yet other possibilities skip you. Also, wasn't this scenario already discussed by crinstingale? I'll have to go back and look it up. Sounds awfully familiar.
I'm sure I've mentioned it before.. I can't remember if others brought it up too.

And what possibilities am I skipping? Do share with the group.