Posted December 22, 2014
cristigale
Yip Yip
Registered: Apr 2012
From United States
Robbeasy
Too Old
Registered: Sep 2008
From United Kingdom
Posted December 22, 2014
I f*cking hate barefoot essentials + convenient technology solutions sometimes!!!!!! I wrote a post for almost and hour just to left swipe accidentally, go back one page and lose everything from the quick answer field.
I actually cried out in anger and woke the kid up.
I advise everyone who doesn't already do this to write their posts elsewhere first and post only when done.
dedoporno
A bloody pirate!
Registered: Apr 2012
From Bulgaria
HijacK
One man army
Registered: Apr 2012
From Romania
Posted December 22, 2014
A couple of suspicious posts combined with overall lurkiness, though if I was to say anything, it was most likely a half random choice. It was fair game for anyone to be followed since Day 1 wasn't exactly the most info giving.
Lifthrasil: Exactly my thinking. Robb's claim came only after he already knew that HijacK investigated him at night. I did not investigate Robb directly.
Robbeasy: In fact we'll never know, because I'm gonna be lynched today or tomorrow I would guess, and it would be suicide for anyone visiting me. You know? I tend to believe your claim, but this strikes me as BS. I believe flub clearly stated we can ask him questions about our roles, so what exactly stops you from PMing him right now?
JMich: Doubt it. Watching someone tells you who visited him, tracking someone tells you who he visited. You know, I believe I was very clear when I said I don't want to give scum a clear idea of my role. What part did you not get form there?
trentonlf: If you had linked the role with your claim and said you believed the reasonings shown in the advice portion was best it would have given your claim more credence instead of you trying to make it seem as if it was your idea. Debatable. In the previous game, adalia added a link to the PGO role in his false claim and people jumped on him calling scum play.
trentonlf: This is why I asked Hijack in post 1427 who he was using his role ability on, but he did not answer. Catching up now, however I'll say that I really wish people ignored this because I stated it in the past, I don't want scum to know the exact details of my role. Given how easily is to research roles on mafiascum.net, telling who my target was is like telling you my exact role. On scum's part it would be a basic analogy to track my role down.
But thanks to someone's "investigation", no naming here, the fog around that is pretty much just non existent now.
JMich: Would love to hear about it later, since I can't think of any. If HijacK has a role that targeted Robb, the PGO claim cannot work. If HijacK has a role that targeted TB, I can't think of any that tells him he died because he visited Robb, though there are quite a few that would reveal he died because Robb visited him, which isn't something a PGO can do.
Unless you mean both HijacK and Robb are scum, and their role doesn't matter in the slightest. You know, where were you when it was discussed that we have to use the game flavor to make any sense of this and when i listed my reasoning of why Robb could be scum?
But thanks to someone's "investigation", no naming here, the fog around that is pretty much just non existent now.
Unless you mean both HijacK and Robb are scum, and their role doesn't matter in the slightest.
flubbucket
"Intoning"
Registered: Dec 2012
From Micronesia
Posted December 22, 2014
JMich
A Horrible Human Person. If you need me, chat.
Registered: Apr 2011
From Greece
Posted December 22, 2014
Probably doing nursing duties. Can I get a link to said post or posts?
Lifthrasil
Bring the GOG-Downloader back!
Registered: Apr 2011
From Germany
Posted December 22, 2014
Plus, you pull some example out of thin air, which I never used, to make your point. You don't bother actually referring to what I wrote, but you invent something, which can be easier attacked. Really, the more you write the scummier you appear to me.
To re-iterate the scenario I proposed (not the one you invented and subsequently deconstructed): I just see the possibility that Robb had something to do with the death of Twilight (which he doesn't deny). Then, in the morning, Hijack announces that he was watching Twilight at night, forcing Robbs hand. Robb panics, since he doesn't know what Hijack knows, and claims something that fits. I think this is a very possible scenario, even if I don't know what Robb was thinking. I'm no mind reader, you know?
Sure, all this fits as well if he really is town PGO. Maybe we got lucky. Maybe Twilight was scum sent to nightkill Robb, which backfired because he is PGO. Maybe.
But I still think, that his claim would be a very nice "don't investigate me" claim for scum. The main reason why I still suspect him, however, is that standing watch on night one with two claimed cops doesn't fit to him being town. He was fully aware that he was more likely to eliminate a town power role than to do anything good. And now he even asked us not to discuss this any more! What kind of scummy move is that? Sure, it was worded jokingly, but still: discussing mistakes someone made is all we have. Asking everyone: "Hey, please don't discuss my mistakes. I already said I'm sorry." is a very bad idea. If we were really to stop discussing anti-town behaviour as soon as the guilty person says "Sorry." we might as well stop playing altogether.
dedoporno
A bloody pirate!
Registered: Apr 2012
From Bulgaria
Posted December 22, 2014
Fortunately, there are others who bear potential, but I'll have to go back and have a re-read first.
P.S. I now see that Lifth did vote for Robb after all.
adaliabooks
"Vell, Zaphod's just zis guy, you know?"
Registered: Jun 2013
From United Kingdom
Posted December 22, 2014
I'm completely with JMich and know exactly what he means. For Lift's theory to make sense, the only possible role Robb could be (not just claim) is PGO. Yes, he knew HijacK was going to say something. But HijacK had already said he knew who Twilight had visited, not who had visited Twilight. So the only way that reveal coul have been Twilight's killer was if he visited a PGO. If Robb had something else to hide he could have not said anything and claimed ignorance. For all I know I have been visited by someone at some point. But if that person were to die how could it possibly be my fault? That's basically what Lift is claiming.
We all agree that Robbs actions were not very pro town, and neither were CSPVGs. But that on itself doesn't make them scum. In the high school game dedo shot the town cop night 1 because he wanted to use his power in case he got NK. Was that pro town? No, but he was town.
Lifts (and to a lesser extent dedos) insistence in pursuing Robb, not just as a policy lynch but by trying to paint him as scum, when for all we know he killed a scum in the night, is no more pro town than Robbs own actions were.
And jumping on JMich for pointing out a glaringly obvious flaw in his argument is even less townie.
Right now I think it's pretty clear what to do.
Vote Lifthrasil
We all agree that Robbs actions were not very pro town, and neither were CSPVGs. But that on itself doesn't make them scum. In the high school game dedo shot the town cop night 1 because he wanted to use his power in case he got NK. Was that pro town? No, but he was town.
Lifts (and to a lesser extent dedos) insistence in pursuing Robb, not just as a policy lynch but by trying to paint him as scum, when for all we know he killed a scum in the night, is no more pro town than Robbs own actions were.
And jumping on JMich for pointing out a glaringly obvious flaw in his argument is even less townie.
Right now I think it's pretty clear what to do.
Vote Lifthrasil
HypersomniacLive
The Reluctant Voter
Registered: Sep 2011
From Vatican City
Posted December 22, 2014
I f*cking hate barefoot essentials + convenient technology solutions sometimes!!!!!! I wrote a post for almost and hour just to left swipe accidentally, go back one page and lose everything from the quick answer field.
I actually cried out in anger and woke the kid up.
I advise everyone who doesn't already do this to write their posts elsewhere first and post only when done.
Lazarus auto-saves web-forms as you type, so if a server times out, your cat wanders across the keyboard, you close the page by accident, or anything else goes wrong, you can simply return to that page, click the Lazarus icon next to the form, and select what you want to recover. It's just that easy.
I've been using it for a few years now, and it has saved my butt on numerous occasions. Regarding the game - I have to read everything since I last posted, probably even do some rereading.
yogsloth
GRAAAAAAH!!!!!
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
JMich
A Horrible Human Person. If you need me, chat.
Registered: Apr 2011
From Greece
Posted December 22, 2014
Better yet, what is the scenario you believed happened? The question you keep avoiding.
Yogsloth was almost certain to go investigate CSPVG, so first cop target was a quite possible one. So that leaves CSPVG and 14 other players (CSPVG makes 15, Yogsloth makes 16, Crewdroog makes 17 and RWarehall 18). The chances of CSPVG targeting Robbeasy were 1 in 14.
Assuming the standard 25% ratio for scum, in an 18 player game, that means 4.5, so most likely 4 scum and one SK. With 4 scum alive, even if the cops are possible targets (which they most likely weren't, due to doctors and watchers), that means the scum had 13 possible targets (4 scum and 1 lynched make 18), or 12 if we remove Crewdroog from the equation as well. So the chances of scum targeting Robbeasy was 1 in 13 to 1 in 10.
Now, you say that Robbeasy knew it was a role madness game when he chose to stand guard. Flubbucket confirmed role madness in this post. December 15, 2014. Night started on this post. December 14, 2014. It is possible that Robbeasy had already sent his night action at that point.
adaliabooks
"Vell, Zaphod's just zis guy, you know?"
Registered: Jun 2013
From United Kingdom
Posted December 22, 2014
Leaning towards him being naive at the moment. I just can't really see Lift not being scum right now. While I originally had him leaning town after some quite good posts day 1, he has since made such a fuss over CSPVG and Robbs claims (and tried to use that fuss as an argument to lynch either of them) that I can't see a town reason to do that.
There is definitely a chance either or both of them are scum. But neither of them had any real pressure to make a claim or gained anything for scum by doing so. If CSPVG isn't a cop he either needs to keep feeding us accurate reads on townies to maintain the charade (or be lynched for being naive) or get lynched as soon as he gets one wrong. The only problem there is that we may or may not get flips so its hard to know. But the important point is, he didn't know that when he claimed.
Robb is in the same boat, we might leave him alive a day or two more but he's probably going to be lynched for safety unless he behaves very pro town. So his claim, with no pressure on him, makes little sense to be false. Plus if he is scum and we assume he is lying about his role but still killed Twilight (somehow) than it further muddies the water of how flips work.
I think Lift is scum and trying to push lynches on townies on flimsy arguments. The only real spanner is CSPVGs read on him, but we thought he might not be accurate anyway.
There is definitely a chance either or both of them are scum. But neither of them had any real pressure to make a claim or gained anything for scum by doing so. If CSPVG isn't a cop he either needs to keep feeding us accurate reads on townies to maintain the charade (or be lynched for being naive) or get lynched as soon as he gets one wrong. The only problem there is that we may or may not get flips so its hard to know. But the important point is, he didn't know that when he claimed.
Robb is in the same boat, we might leave him alive a day or two more but he's probably going to be lynched for safety unless he behaves very pro town. So his claim, with no pressure on him, makes little sense to be false. Plus if he is scum and we assume he is lying about his role but still killed Twilight (somehow) than it further muddies the water of how flips work.
I think Lift is scum and trying to push lynches on townies on flimsy arguments. The only real spanner is CSPVGs read on him, but we thought he might not be accurate anyway.
yogsloth
GRAAAAAAH!!!!!
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
Posted December 22, 2014
CSPVG is either scum or legit Town Cop, and with no card flip, I am leaning strongly towards the latter.
No Lift for me.
adaliabooks
"Vell, Zaphod's just zis guy, you know?"
Registered: Jun 2013
From United Kingdom
Posted December 22, 2014
This. This is much more like it :)
Sorry I considered you scum day 1, you're posts are very insightful at the moment and completely match what I'm thinking.
yogsloth: I'm going to go on record as saying that in a role madness game... with no card flip... the existence of a naive cop would be so nefariously unbalanced and crippling to Town I simply cannot believe it. Period.
CSPVG is either scum or legit Town Cop, and with no card flip, I am leaning strongly towards the latter.
No Lift for me. I understand that...
On the other hand, it's convenient for you to have us believe that as he has got a town read from you. Now I do tend to believe that (at the moment) but you can see how you arguing for CSPVG's reliability is somewhat dubious?
Like I said, CSPVG's reading is the only spanner in the works as I do tend to believe his claim.
Sorry I considered you scum day 1, you're posts are very insightful at the moment and completely match what I'm thinking.
CSPVG is either scum or legit Town Cop, and with no card flip, I am leaning strongly towards the latter.
No Lift for me.
On the other hand, it's convenient for you to have us believe that as he has got a town read from you. Now I do tend to believe that (at the moment) but you can see how you arguing for CSPVG's reliability is somewhat dubious?
Like I said, CSPVG's reading is the only spanner in the works as I do tend to believe his claim.