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Sage103082: Bold is my doing. Do you mean Dedo?
Sorry, I dashed that bit off as an afterthought. I did not read it back, and therefore missed my error. Yes, I meant Dedo.
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CSPVG: Sorry, I dashed that bit off as an afterthought. I did not read it back, and therefore missed my error. Yes, I meant Dedo.
That makes a lot more sense that asking about Darko. I found his play at the start a little off, but as of now I have more suspicion of others rather than him.
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Sage103082: Why did you choose Twilight to visit?

@Robb - What was your plan to play your role? Would you have claimed if Hijack had not hinting about knowing about the visit?
Thank you for following up on my questions, Sage! I, also, would like to see them answered.



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CSPVG: P. S. One cannot quite put one's finger on it, but Darko [Dedo] strikes me as somehow off this game. Does anyone else get a scummy vibe from him?
Care to elaborate (the fix, of course, is mine)?
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CSPVG: P. S. One cannot quite put one's finger on it, but Darko strikes me as somehow off this game. Does anyone else get a scummy vibe from him?
No. Darko strikes me as somehow dead in this game...

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trentonlf: Robb's claim only came after Hijack hinted he knew what happened with TB and it makes it seem as if Robb was covering himself in hopes of buying some time before he is lynched. I think a more town idea would have been to do the risky play listed in the advice and hint at a power role that would make the scum come after him and die when they did. Now we have to waste a lynch at some point and we're not even sure if it will show a flip on him.
Exactly my thinking. Robb's claim came only after he already knew that HijacK investigated him at night. So it was a good way for scum to avoid being lynched (and further investigated by cops) right away.


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HijacK: Honestly, I did not imagine a PGO initially and was not expecting him to claim. In my mind, Flub's hint must have had some significance given the fact we don't know how we can trigger a flip or not, so I was thinking that TB visited scum, while incidentally being NK'd.
And your suspicion may have been exactly true. Only that Robb countered your announcement that you followed TB by claiming PGO.


Add to these observation following statement:
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Robbeasy: Yes - I will admit first night there was more chance hitting a town power role than a Mafia one. There still probably is for quite a few nights, Which is why I came out and claimed. I've already said I couldn't resist it first night - it wasn't ideal Town play, and for that I apologise, but it's hard when you get a power role to play with..;)
Robb admits that he was fully aware that his chances of hitting a town power role were bigger than his chance of hitting mafia. Yet he still went through with it. This was very much anti-town play. Sure, he apologized after being called out on it, but what scum wouldn't? "Sorry I killed one of your power roles... but I couldn't resist the temptation."
As I said, definitely anti-town. Either by very bad play or intentionally because he's scum. I believe the latter: scum, who is hiding behind a conveniently fitting PGO claim.
Yes, his claim opened him for policy lynch at some point. But he knew he was going to be a probable target anyhow after HijacK announced he had nightly observations to share. And he knew that we would hesitate to do the policy lynch right away - and that he wouldn't be investigated by our cop(s) after his claim. So it's a perfect play for time to have a few more nights to do damage to town.

So all in all: I believe that Robbeasy is scum, hiding behind his PGO claim and therefore I

vote Robbeasy
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Lifthrasil: Robb's claim only came after Hijack hinted he knew what happened with TB and it makes it seem as if Robb was covering himself in hopes of buying some time before he is lynched. I think a more town idea would have been to do the risky play listed in the advice and hint at a power role that would make the scum come after him and die when they did. Now we have to waste a lynch at some point and we're not even sure if it will show a flip on him.

snip

And your suspicion may have been exactly true. Only that Robb countered your announcement that you followed TB by claiming PGO.
Quick question, what role could Hijack have that PGO would be explained? If HijacK was a tracker going after TB, he couldn't say what scum targeted TB. If he was a watcher watching TB, he would have seen that Robbeasy targeted TB, not that TB targeted Rob. If he was a tracker following Rob, PGO would have already killed him.

So, what role would HijacK have that a PGO claim would work?
OK - more questions to answer - I will do my best...

@ dedo..

No - I wasn't saying you were Mafia at all - I was pointing out that Mafia have many reasons for picking their targets, and I was just as likely as anyone else to be targetted first night. So although there was some oh 'ooh I've got a power role and I cant resist using it' there, there was also in my mind a legitimate chance of being targetted by Mafia.

Other question - I had decided to come out and claim anyway, before I read what HijacK posted. That post made it even more imperative. We have less information than usual to work with, with irregular flips on lynch and / or NK's. I saw, after what transpired night 1, a way to clear up some stuff and minimise my danger to town.

@Cristigale - my PM makes no call one way or the other. I assume standing guard is NOT the same as shooting - if I stand guard and no-one visits, it stands to reason I still have the shot. But I have no way of confirming that for sure. In fact we'll never know, because I'm gonna be lynched today or tomorrow I would guess, and it would be suicide for anyone visiting me.
Here's a thing though - I could vow NOT to stand guard, and be investigated to confirm my role. But that would take some trust from you people to believe me, and its a lot safer just to lynch.

@sage - after my three shots are used up, I assume I turn basically into a vanilla Townie, yes. And as I've stated I was already preparing my post before I saw HijacKs.

@Trentonlf - I did indeed look up the role on mafiascum - wouldn't you if you had it? It was that page that convinced me for sure that my safest play was to claim. And you are also correct, its where I got the wording 'policy lynch'. How does reading it up on the mafia wiki make me any more likely to be scum?

And that post from HijacK - if anything it would have made it more likely for me to be investigated by Town, no? If HijacK had confirmed Twilight visited me, I would be under massive suspicion anyway - and favourite for lynch. You really think Mafia would approach someone who was already under so much suspicion? I don't, I think it would be a lot more likely Town would come after me....

@Hypersomniac- other reason was to help clear up some of the nights actions so we wouldn't endlessly analyse it.

The list - i can see one and four attracting Town Power roles. two and three no , as only Mafia would know if they were getting too close, or if theories were way off...

Experience - I have never played Mafia outside this forum. I've played in most of them on here, but my experience is in no way extensive. I've only ever used the mafiawiki to look something up - like I did with my current role.

As for me using the power first night - there was a mix of me thinking I was a legitimate target for Mafia (as I've said, I really didnt think they would hit Yog or CSPVG, once CSPVG's claim muddied the waters - that made everyone else a legitimate one, including me). There was also, I will admit, a desire to make sure I used it while I had chance. I've already admitted it wasn't very pro-town.

Assume vanilla Town once shots used up, yes. Any role who is given a finite number of 'shots' becomes vanilla once they are used up. A moot question though I feel, as it would be silly of you all to let me go on that long. I would promise not use my power, but that would leave me open to a Mafia hit for sure, and take a lot of trust from everyone else - trust is something in very short supply in a Mafia game..;)

I'm being completely open here folks - I'm well aware I'm in line for lynch - I wish we could be sure it was confirmed on flip...

@Lifthrasil - really?? I would claim PGO and then be investigated? Only if there were suicidal cops! There's not really any mileage as scum, for me to claim what I have. Hesitate to policy lynch? I dont see much hesitation, most people have said its gonna happen sooner or later.
Don't mind the vote, but the reasoning? You are way off my friend.

@Jmich - if Twilight visited me, Hijack as a Watcher would see him do that, would he not? I assume Twilight visited me as part of some sort of targetting - HijacK would see that targetting, not my retaliation?? I think the role of Watcher covers HijacK nicely.
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Robbeasy: @Jmich - if Twilight visited me, Hijack as a Watcher would see him do that, would he not? I assume Twilight visited me as part of some sort of targetting - HijacK would see that targetting, not my retaliation?? I think the role of Watcher covers HijacK nicely.
Doubt it. Watching someone tells you who visited him, tracking someone tells you who he visited.
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Robbeasy: OK - more questions to answer - I will do my best...


@Trentonlf - I did indeed look up the role on mafiascum - wouldn't you if you had it? It was that page that convinced me for sure that my safest play was to claim. And you are also correct, its where I got the wording 'policy lynch'. How does reading it up on the mafia wiki make me any more likely to be scum?
I was not saying the fact you looked it up on mafiascum.net made you more likely to be scum. It seemed that once Hijack said he knew why TB was killed it made you go look up a role on mafiascum.net that would prevent anyone from targeting you. As I pointed out the advice portion on mafiascum.net and your claim were almost the same. When making the claim you made it seem as if the reasonings were your idea to gain town points.

If you had linked the role with your claim and said you believed the reasonings shown in the advice portion was best it would have given your claim more credence instead of you trying to make it seem as if it was your idea.
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Robbeasy: @Lifthrasil - really?? I would claim PGO and then be investigated? Only if there were suicidal cops!
Exactly. Which is why your PGO claim protects you from being investigated. Which makes it a good claim for someone who is actually scum.

Especially because:
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Robbeasy: If HijacK had confirmed Twilight visited me, I would be under massive suspicion anyway - and favourite for lynch.
you were, as you realized yourself, going to be a favourite lynch-candidate anyhow. So your PGO claim didn't endanger you further, but it was a possible way to live a few nights longer while even being safe from town investigation.
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Lifthrasil: Especially because:
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Robbeasy: If HijacK had confirmed Twilight visited me, I would be under massive suspicion anyway - and favourite for lynch.
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Lifthrasil: you were, as you realized yourself, going to be a favourite lynch-candidate anyhow. So your PGO claim didn't endanger you further, but it was a possible way to live a few nights longer while even being safe from town investigation.
Wait, what?

Example to see if I understand your reasoning.

Cop investigates Doctor.
Tracker follows Cop.
Scum Night Kills Cop.
Tracker says cop visited Doctor.
Doctor is next to lynch, because the Cop visited him before he died.

Is that your reasoning? More or less same question I asked in post 1445. What kind of role would allow HijacK to know that TB died due to who he visited?
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JMich: So, what role would HijacK have that a PGO claim would work?
Uhm, why do we need to focus on HijacK's role? I strongly doubt this may be in our best interest right now. Let's be gentlemanly about it and keep it aside, mkay? Thanks!


@Robbeasy, thanks for your answers. If you had to make a list or point a single person if there aren't enough candidates for potential anti-town-ness (wut?!), who would you have in mind?
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JMich: So, what role would HijacK have that a PGO claim would work?
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dedoporno: Uhm, why do we need to focus on HijacK's role? I strongly doubt this may be in our best interest right now. Let's be gentlemanly about it and keep it aside, mkay? Thanks!
If Robbeasy made a false claim because a true claim from HijacK would out Robb as a scum killer, what would HijacK's claim be?
I can't think of a role that can follow someone and prove he was killed due to who he visited, nor a role that can visit a PGO and survive. So, what role could HijacK have that would make Robb false claim PGO?

I don't care about HijacK's role, just wondering the line of reasoning that says Robb false claims due to Hijack's claim.
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JMich: If Robbeasy made a false claim because a true claim from HijacK would out Robb as a scum killer, what would HijacK's claim be?
I can't think of a role that can follow someone and prove he was killed due to who he visited, nor a role that can visit a PGO and survive. So, what role could HijacK have that would make Robb false claim PGO?

I don't care about HijacK's role, just wondering the line of reasoning that says Robb false claims due to Hijack's claim.
You may not care, but other surely do. Maybe a lot. I can think of a scenario that fits pretty good, you should be able to, as well. I only ask you and the others to do so on your own and leave that discussion for later. No need to feed the scum anymore information right now.
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JMich: If Robbeasy made a false claim because a true claim from HijacK would out Robb as a scum killer, what would HijacK's claim be?
I can't think of a role that can follow someone and prove he was killed due to who he visited, nor a role that can visit a PGO and survive. So, what role could HijacK have that would make Robb false claim PGO?

I don't care about HijacK's role, just wondering the line of reasoning that says Robb false claims due to Hijack's claim.
This is why I asked Hijack in post 1427 who he was using his role ability on, but he did not answer.
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dedoporno: I can think of a scenario that fits pretty good, you should be able to, as well.
Would love to hear about it later, since I can't think of any. If HijacK has a role that targeted Robb, the PGO claim cannot work. If HijacK has a role that targeted TB, I can't think of any that tells him he died because he visited Robb, though there are quite a few that would reveal he died because Robb visited him, which isn't something a PGO can do.

Unless you mean both HijacK and Robb are scum, and their role doesn't matter in the slightest.