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Neobr10: ....
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orcishgamer: Oh cripes, there's charities in my city that give away old hardware should you be willing to learn how to use it (which involves wiring it together and installing a free OS on it). Charities like that exist all over the world.

Besides, computers provide more than just access to games and cheap internet porn. They're a fairly useful tool and many families even in poor countries will find the means to obtain something like that. Others will borrow or time-share access in a small group, or even pay for access in some sort of cafe.

I don't know what went on in the 15 pages before and I'm not going back, but if you're maintaining that the PC is some sort of luxury item and not frequently owned by the very poor, you're wrong. Yak herders in remote regions have solar powered LED lighting now days and some guy in Afghanistan built a solar powered 3D printer that uses sand as an input and extrudes some sort of glass substance.
Hey, now wait a second. Im not talking about ordinary PCs, which pretty much have low specs, im talking about a gaming rig. Those are COMPLETELY different. And i doubt theyll ever give out a few Core i7 coupled with a GTX680 on charity. Even a mid end PC isnt exactly that cheap.

Dont take my post out of context, please. My original reply was to the guy who said he couldnt afford recent AAA games. IT made me a bit surprised as to how someone can actually afford a good PC to run modern AAA titles and then claim to not be able to afford such games. Lets be honest here, you need at least a decent PC to get Skyrim, or BF3 to work. These arent cheap, and i doubt they are given on charity too.

A PC is far from being a luxury item nowadays. But a gaming PC, in my opinion, yeah, it IS a luxury item, even more than a current gen console.

Now, i wouldnt buy an expensive car with too high maintenance costs if i know i wont be able to sustain it. Same goes for games, i think.
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GameRager: It's amazing how stubborn some can be that they'll keep holding onto every little bit of their beliefs even when proven wrong.
Since i know youre referring to me, may i ask you wheres that fucking proof that im wrong you keep referring to? Please show it to me. Im still waiting. You keep saying that im wrong, still you have NOTHING to back your arguments up. What youre saying is YOUR opinion. What im saying is MINE. Is it that hard to accept it? I dont have to agree with you to please you. I never clamied to be right and i never said you were wrong, i posted my opinion with my arguments to back it up. I cant prove my position, NEITHER can you. Yet im stubborn? Look at yourself before pointing your finger at others.

You keep saying like YOUR opinion is totally right and everyone who doesnt agree with you is wrong. Man, give me a break.

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MonstaMunch: I still maintain my stance that if you have an internet connection, a computer, and no job, you should be using your computer and internet to get yourself a job, or at least try. If you can't feed yourself, playing video games should be the least of your priorities.

I also maintain that stealing food because you're hungry and stealing video games because you're bored are two very different things. One I can sympathize with, the other I can't.
This, exactly. You sumed it up perfectly.
Post edited April 05, 2012 by Neobr10
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orcishgamer: Oh cripes, there's charities in my city that give away old hardware should you be willing to learn how to use it (which involves wiring it together and installing a free OS on it). Charities like that exist all over the world.

Besides, computers provide more than just access to games and cheap internet porn. They're a fairly useful tool and many families even in poor countries will find the means to obtain something like that. Others will borrow or time-share access in a small group, or even pay for access in some sort of cafe.

I don't know what went on in the 15 pages before and I'm not going back, but if you're maintaining that the PC is some sort of luxury item and not frequently owned by the very poor, you're wrong. Yak herders in remote regions have solar powered LED lighting now days and some guy in Afghanistan built a solar powered 3D printer that uses sand as an input and extrudes some sort of glass substance.
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Neobr10: Hey, now wait a second. Im not talking about ordinary PCs, which pretty much have low specs, im talking about a gaming rig. Those are COMPLETELY different. And i doubt theyll ever give out a few Core i7 coupled with a GTX680 on charity. Even a mid end PC isnt exactly that cheap.

Dont take my post out of context, please. My original reply was to the guy who said he couldnt afford recent AAA games. IT made me a bit surprised as to how someone can actually afford a good PC to run modern AAA titles and then claim to not be able to afford such games. Lets be honest here, you need at least a decent PC to get Skyrim, or BF3 to work. These arent cheap, and i doubt they are given on charity too.

A PC is far from being a luxury item nowadays. But a gaming PC, in my opinion, yeah, it IS a luxury item, even more than a current gen console.

Now, i wouldnt buy an expensive car with too high maintenance costs if i know i wont be able to sustain it. Same goes for games, i think.
Even a shit ass computer can play games from 2005-2006, timeframe, or older games. I'm not aware that this thread is talking about 2011's greatest, hottest AAA titles, it's talking about GOG releases, some of which could run on OLPC or a craptastic netbook.

Sure, the gaming PC I own is a luxury item, but a PC that can allow game piracy? Not so much. Almost any PC will allow game piracy these days, just not necessarily for recent titles (though some of them even qualify, I'm pretty sure my phone could run Minecraft and certainly most of these shitty PCs could as well).

I think the argument "the PC is a luxury item" just simply needs to go, it's not really a truism when it comes to game piracy, which is pretty much the only reason it ever comes up. Cheap, 2nd hand, shared, charity, or whatever PCs aren't rare any more and people will find ways to get games on them just like I found a way to get games on my C64 as a kid despite my family being considered quite poor (by American standards). It's just now those PCs can show up in poor family homes in non-first world countries, not just in the US and other first world countries.

If you'd said PCs were a luxury item in the 90s, sure, I could sort of agree. Now days, it's not even close, and it's a really, really small minority of games, especially in GOG's catalog, that need anything more beefy than a junked 2005 Dell to run (and some of them not even that).
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orcishgamer: I'm not aware that this thread is talking about 2011's greatest, hottest AAA titles, it's talking about GOG releases, some of which could run on OLPC or a craptastic netbook.
Dude, you didnt even bother to read my post above. I said my original post in which i came up with this point was in reply to a guy who said he couldnt afford recent AAA games. You took my post completely out of context.

Even then, i dont think that being poor is a valid excuse for piracy.
Post edited April 05, 2012 by Neobr10
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GameRager: I know one possible reason: Addiction. Some just love to collect things...be it stamps/books/games/etc...even if they don't play them. I suffer this too to some extent.
Im a collector myself, but for original games. I cant see why someone would "collect" pirated stuff.
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orcishgamer: I'm not aware that this thread is talking about 2011's greatest, hottest AAA titles, it's talking about GOG releases, some of which could run on OLPC or a craptastic netbook.
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Neobr10: Dude, you didnt even bother to read my post above. I said my original post in which i came up with this point was in reply to a guy who said he couldnt afford recent AAA games. You took my post completely out of context.

Even then, i dont think that being poor is a valid excuse for piracy.
My pc specs are:
Athlon II X2 P320
3GB Ram
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5470

And Skyrim,SR3 & Batman work on it.. not on max details but they are playable. So yes I can't afford a gaming rig for 2000$, I can't afford giving 60 euro for a game... But yes I can afford giving 25 euro a month to the bank for my pc. You get it now?
So yes Piracy is a bad thing,but when you learn to live on lower budget as a gamer you will see what is important and what is not.
And yes I do hate big publishers like THQ/EA/2K games for selling AAA titles in parts(DLC's and shits). Sorry but giving one time a 60$ is ok I can understand that(For countries were sallaries are normal) but to brake a game a part and selling scenarios for extra profit is just wrong!

Btw I don't mind buying games when Valve(Steam) learn where is Bulgaria and that Russia & Ukraine are not very different from us in sallaries.

For instance: Rescent promo on Steam:
X-Superbox
price for Bulgaria with 50% off - € 19.99 (equal to $ 26.27)
price for Ukraine with 50% off - $9.99
price for Russia with 50% off - $ 10.17
price for Brazil/US with 50% off - $19.99

See the difference? So for Valve - Bulgarians have more money than everybody from the stated above countries :)

And I definetly buy games from GOG when I can.
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Neobr10: Even then, i dont think that being poor is a valid excuse for piracy.
Being poor (including being a kid) is *the* valid excuse for piracy. That, and DRM. Gently caress "justice" and "fairness" ("bawww, how come I'm paying for games and they don't?"), point is people who have access to culture are better people - they commit less violent crime and steal fewer scarce things, when accounted for class/income differences.

Piracy needs to be memetically decriminalized and deglamorized (these two correlate). Currently, people who pirate AAA titles are "sticking it to The Man": they bypass DRM (zomg leet haxxors!!1!), break the law (zomg gangsta!) and don't allow themselves to be screwed like paying customers are (those suckers!). Instead, we need "Ooh, you hacked a DRM-free game. What are you, ten?"
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Starmaker: /snip
Where on earth do you come up with this shit? America and Russia have less violent crime than other nations? And it's because of easy access to video games? And stealing isn't stealing if you're poor or under 16?

Truly mind boggling.
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Starmaker: /snip
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MonstaMunch: Where on earth do you come up with this shit? America and Russia have less violent crime than other nations? And it's because of easy access to video games? And stealing isn't stealing if you're poor or under 16?

Truly mind boggling.
It isn't stealing for technical reason, copyright infringement is never theft. That doesn't make it moral in any particular situation, but it's not theft.

America definitely has a problem with violent crime, I can't comment on Russia, but here in China I definitely feel a lot safer than I would back home. In general the worst that's likely to happen here is that you get mugged and perhaps cut up a bit if the mugger is in a bad mood, but probably nothing that's going to threaten life or limb.

More likely you'd get bag snatched or pick pocketed. But, none of that has happened to anybody I know here in China and the crime rate seems to be generally low for those sorts of offenses.
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MonstaMunch: Where on earth do you come up with this shit? America and Russia have less violent crime than other nations? And it's because of easy access to video games? And stealing isn't stealing if you're poor or under 16?

Truly mind boggling.
Where did you come up with this shit?

they commit less violent crime and steal fewer scarce things, when accounted for class/income differences

Poor people who have access to public libraries / free movie showings / the internet with its tons of actually free entertainment than poor people without access to all that stuff. However, popular culture is massively commercial, it advertizes itself in a positive feedback loop. And it won't stop being commercial, ever, because of the Mickey Mouse Protection Act. Unless it's made free for the poor, you are creating a whole underclass who do not share your culture and your social values at all. And there'll always be an underclass unless you implement socialist policies - you can't carpet-bomb them or jail them. Note how I didn't mention counties at all.

Second - piracy reduces theft. Note how I specified "steal fewer nonscarce things". It has been proven that crime correlates with crime - e.g. the same shop attracts more shoplifters if litter is not removed. However, the increase in the quality of life and the corresponding decrease in actually harmful crime rates among the poor due to access to culture (which includes piracy) is so great that it more than compensates for the increase in crime among the rich (who do not experience a proportional increase in the quality of life, so piracy just serves as a gateway to more crime).
Confessions of a GOG pirate: I've pirated several GOG games. I think up until this point I ended up buying every single one that I pirated prior. I also think that very well may be the attitudes of a lot of pirates, or I may be a somewhat unique individual. I do like to try a game before hand to see how good it is... Or I may have pirated a game I used to own long before to see if its as good as I remember. But I will say this, anyone intelligent who does pirate from GOG should keep in mind that its important to support this publisher, and the developers of the games they download. This is why I tend to have a hierarchy of publishers I buy from, first being the humble store, for the contribution to charity, second is GOG, for doing right by the gaming consumer, then third is steam, if I can't find the title in the previous two options. Its okay to get pissed off at people who will simply take advantage of GOG stance... But I'd like to think its working in the favor of the company on a few levels. And ALSO GOG started as an abandonware site... if I'm not mistaken... which is in essence, piracy. Basically the point is, they know the risk, and the potential gain, and I think they'll come out on top, but I do love how passionate OP is on the matter, and I think that attitude will prevail.
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Insom.549: And ALSO GOG started as an abandonware site... if I'm not mistaken... which is in essence, piracy.
Technically speaking (not legally) an abandonware site doesn't do much, if any, financial damage considering the rights owner most likely doesn't do anything to sell the game but what makes you think GOG started as an abandware site?
And nice necro by the way ^^
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Insom.549: And ALSO GOG started as an abandonware site... if I'm not mistaken... which is in essence, piracy.
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Nirth: Technically speaking (not legally) an abandonware site doesn't do much, if any, financial damage considering the rights owner most likely doesn't do anything to sell the game but what makes you think GOG started as an abandware site?
I recall going to GOG for abandonware long ago. Though I have a feeling piracy may be doing GOG more good than harm, honestly. The installer advertises their reasoning for DRM free distribution, leading many pirates to make purchases. I'd be inclined to hear GOG's stance on the matter...
LOL
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Insom.549: I recall going to GOG for abandonware long ago. Though I have a feeling piracy may be doing GOG more good than harm, honestly. The installer advertises their reasoning for DRM free distribution, leading many pirates to make purchases. I'd be inclined to hear GOG's stance on the matter...
Indeed but it's still a PR issue which is why I don't think they can publically endorse it.