MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

L-2... careful guys. Has everyone agree to the plan yet?

I concur.

R_B seems to be nitpicking just for the heck of it, really.

I am of the opinion that he's nitpicking because he's scum, and he knows that there's nothing else he can do. I also suspect Damnation is scum, simply because he's not participating at all.

I'm fully prepared to eat my words, however.

Kinda - there is a point to it though.

What if his target knows that he was targeted, but the kill didn't happen? Guess that would prove Jef's intentions to at least kill him?

Also thanks for the new considerations - Problem will just be that Baz is also the protector, so eventual mafia could kill of nmillar - So should I maybe protect him instead if thats the case? Else I prefer original plan - mostly due to believing Damnations claim.

Why would the target know they were targeted? And even still, how would they know they were targeted by Jefe? What? Having nmillar alive is in no way required for the plan to work. Your mission is to make sure Jefe comes through the night alive, nothing else.

And the various versions I've posted of the plan - all 3 of them - are virtually identical. This is only less likely to lose to a redirector.

nmillar thing first - The idea that nmillar is scum kinda hinges on Baz theory that nmillar got his stuff from the mafia rolecop if I recall correct. Hence nothing prevents nmillar from having made his claim and still be the redirector. I don't see how preferring Damnation over others is to make sense.. I myself is kinda covered by the kill if it works, but there is still viable subjects for redirector. This is nothing I agree with / believe, its just a note that one can't just say that since he claimed vanilla he could be redirector. Every claim is in doubt unless proven otherwise. But yes, I'll protect Jef - the other was mainly a concern about info, surviver and what not. In my mind we can have only 3 possible scums as of now, those being Jef, Baz and NFY -> Since I believe nmillar, I believe Damnation and the rest dies following the plan. Take that slight notch more and I don't really consider NFY scum, although Rodzaju believed that to be the case - but his willingness to post a theory for nmillar and his own stuff clears him in my mind.. So that leaves Jef and Baz.

Hope that ramble of thoughts made sense to somebody :)

Oh what the heck - As said I'll follow the plan, but I have a feeling we could easily end this by voting lynching one of those two. :P I'll clap my hand in joy if it turns out I am right when this game ends.

I do not say much because so far I'm in agreement, I have voiced my opinion previously when I was in disagreement. I do not see you contributing that much more than me in the grander scheme of this plan, only when it comes to your night actions specifically.

On the whole redirector thing, I find it somewhat implausbile that Shattered Hand would have a redirector, considering balance Gambiani was a roleblocker plus a hammerer - a roleblocker is highly useful, a hammerer is highly detrimental. We know the Shattered Hand had a role cop, I believe adding a redirector to them makes them far more powerful than the Gambiani, but such is just my opinion on balance.

Overall, the only hole present in the current plan is jef or baz being scum (Though they can be worked around as Zchinque has pointed out, provided people keep their eyes open), or by unforeseeable complications (night kill mechanic, last mafia's power, if any, etc)

Oh, I agree it's unlikely, I said as much. But blocking you instead of nmillar covers our back from that one possibility at no extra cost.

Indeed, though it would leave nmillar open to be night killed, meaning we would never learn the info he gains - but we do not know if nmillar's ability is blockable, so it might be worth the risk? Either way, if blocking me is the way we go about this, then it is the way we go about this ;)

The information from both NFY and nmillar is just icing on the cake. We do not need it for the plan to succeed.

And yeah, I agree that nmillar/Zchinque/Damnation are absolutely interchangeable here. Nmillar has a confirmed role of sorts, so we might as well keep him for later.

I'd hoped to be nightkilled, but obviously that was never going to happen once I'd claimed. In some ways I'm quite happy about getting lynched as part of an elaborate plan... at least I get to explode.

Your death had better be gory and epic.

I hope you're reading this X!