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Telika: I'd like a ask yet another poll question, although too few players are active to answer it.

Rodzaju said : "I would suggest that Telika was not poisoned, purely on the basis that he is not dead!" and Krypsyn interpreted it as Rodzaju accusing me of lying, while Robbeasy interpreted it as Rodzaju assuming my interpretation of flavor had been wrong.

What was YOUR (yes, YOURS, reader, the same YOU as the other time) spontaneous interpretation of Rodzaju's comment ?

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Krypsyn claims that Rodzaju is "neither a fool nor an idiot" and therefore has, at worst, a plan. I would like confirmation of that, while we're at omg-the-other-players-are-so-dumb. Actually, it's a point I wanted to make earlier : if mafioso, the snake+damnation thing sounds sloppy and improvised. Those who have played with Rodzaju : shall we expect sloppy-and-improvised mafia plans from him, or carefully crafted and planned ones ?
I took out the stuff I don't want to comment on, just for the sake of sanity.

I honestly viewed it as Rod raising the possibility that the flavor you had was misinterpreted. If Rod really believed you were outright lying I don't think he would have been subtle about it.

As for the other, I don't think I've ever been at the 'omg the other players are so dumb' state of the game. Everyone responds to things differently and everyone's thought processes have unique differences. Although on that, I've seen very few thought out master plans from anyone, mainly because of how everyone else reacts. To have a perfect plan you'd have to be insanely adaptive to keep the plan from falling apart past day 1.

And, to Pazzer:

When Rob explained it (in Day 1), I don't believe that at the time anyone actually doubted that he would get flavor from it. But at the time (Day 2) what really got to me was how much Vitek was attacking...BEFORE Rob had even posted anything regarding what kind of flavor he got.

Another thing is, if we're to simply take the wiki at face value, then we should lynch Telika for lying since the poisoner description doesn't say anything about the target knowing that they're poisoned. My opinion there is, that we need to take into consideration that each mod is going to make changes, that while the wiki is a useful tool for giving us the gist of a role, it can't be taken as a perfect piece of information.
Actually while I am compiling my idea in my head - I felt a quick question sneak up on me: Could the knowledge you got about your maybe poison Telika be seen as something that avoided another.. As in you were in a bar the waiter gave you another order.. you stole a fruit from a one legged guy or something like that? Began to wonder if NFY for some reason gave flavor to others when poisoning occurred.

On that mind I find myself suspecting Pazzer and AFP, and having a hard time making my mind up about others.

In one way I like to consider nmillar town due to his actions during day one (in response to Rob's plan, though it is tougher to judge that given hindsight). Rodzaju is either a perfect town (due to apparently getting flavor related to others without a role and yet have the courage to share them) or a very sneaky scum.
Twilight, Damnation, SPF and Telika: Neutral pretty much..as I have yet to truly make my mind up about them. Prime reason to suspect Telika: Poison claim, Damnation due to NoX playstyle, Twilight: No true feeling that the moment of anything, SPF: Last vote, always appear scummy thus bah.

Rob: Said before, either town or a very clever scum. (Given that I consider Rob a very clever player I marked him as scum for now to be on the safe side).

Yet none of this is really fastened in steel, and I feel myself trying to untangle more game mechanics than actual scum - Wondering if Rodzaju used coins for his info, thus not having a role yet got something - Though why lie. Wonder about the same with Rob with similar puzzlement, wonder about stolen coins and snakes both tied together with Damnation.. wonder about Ra and the Snakeprotector link I found, considering if placement of houses which flavor gives away a lot of info about can be used in some way.. Wonder about the God's - is there pattern of God / Evil gods to make judgment easier.. what God does Rob follow or Rodzaju?

So yea basically a bunch of thoughts which I don't have an answer to, likely won't get and as such is just stuff I consider when looking at the reactions and posts. Hence why I suspect Rodzaju of either being too careful or being scum out with a lure - Though now that I consider that accusation, doesn't that very fact that someone accuse Rodzaju of having a secondary motive to lure out the Doc similar to Telika, mean that whomever accused him of it first (Who by the way? I recall picking up the suspicion, but was it my own gained from the one against Telika or who did suggest it?). And as such wouldn't the person first to accuse him of doing so be required to know that events have occurred that would fit his experience and as such would have had to be involved in the snakebasket?
Unless of course both Rodzaju and whomever said it is aligned and this both know about whatever incident revolved around something with a snake and damnations house.

And all of those wild theories and guess work have a lot of faith in them of mafia players too pull of weird schemes which I find unlikely, more so given that I never did that myself as scum.. granted though that I find it more likely others could :D

So perhaps I should consider no masterplan and make the list like this:
Rodzaju, Me, Robbeasy: Town for sake of argument and no plans.
Leaving possible scum: Nmillar, Twilight, AFP, Pazzer, Telika, Joe (Whom I forgot until now), JMich (Whom I also just recalled) and Damnation.
From Those still given no master plan I should remove Telika.. however the plan was simple made and that puts him on neutral, leaning scum.
Damnation: No reason as of his own - only due to other oddness from other soul in his body in earlier days.

Then the ones I find suspect from the above list as my scum:
Pazzer, AFP

Then possible candidates for last place on scum (Not considering Telika): JMich, Joe or Nmillar - In that order.
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Red_Baron: Actually while I am compiling my idea in my head - I felt a quick question sneak up on me: Could the knowledge you got about your maybe poison Telika be seen as something that avoided another.. As in you were in a bar the waiter gave you another order.. you stole a fruit from a one legged guy or something like that? Began to wonder if NFY for some reason gave flavor to others when poisoning occurred.
You mean, could I have been poisoned in place of the poisoner's intended target ?

No. The flavour didn't contextualise anything apart from me eating something, and finding out that it had an unusual sour taste. Didn't say from where I got the food.

Also, I'm amused by your "either Rod is town or a very clever mafia", as I consider him town (partly) because I think it wouldn't have been a very clever mafia move. To paste an old draft, this is my "mafia version of Rodzaju" :

[i]So, Rod sees a snake, a fluff joke in his flavor text. He mentions it, out of idleness, as a passing remark, after a poison discussion. For the sake of having something to say. Shoehorned a bit (no biting, no real relevancy), but heck, that makes a post, so there.

Drama, digressions, speculations, woah. Was just sayin', dudes. But whatever. As the discussion drags on, and as he is a mafioso, he thinks "well, what could I add to make it help the cause", and adds on a whim : "also, it was damnation's house". With nothing specific : as it's invented, there is no link to construct, so, things are kept blurry. The house was just there, the snake in the street. Let's not try to make it anything too specific and debunkable, who knows.

So, Damnation is town.

This is all a bit clumsy and improvised, like, tossing a name, without really thinking whether the snake would incriminate (the guy hoards snakes!) or innocent (the guy was under attack): I don't know Rodzaju. Are his strategies generally meticulously crafted, or blurry and improvised ? [/i]

That is my personal interpretation of the case where Rod is mafia (for some reason I assume he didn't invent the snake out of nowhere, but I guess it wouldn't change much). So, the more people say that Rod tends to be quite cunning, the more I disregard the mafia possibility.

Although, to be honest, my main reason to classify him as town is the similarity between his work on vote stats and mine. Even though I had been told in game 13 that Bazilisek (I think, or who else ?) used to keep spreadsheets even as a mafioso, I have the reflex to percieve as townish someone whose methods mirror mine. Maybe it's a mistake, and maybe I'll realise it the day where, playing scum, I'll catch myself doing the same work, but for now, it's one of the little things that "worked" on me, and lead me to place Rod in the town list as a work hypothesis.

This is however personal, and not an argument for others, who can't assume anything about my own affiliation (not to mention would question that 'parallelism' reasoning). But it says where I stand, personally, regarding Rodzaju, for now.

NMillar is still quite suspect, to me. But not automatically mafia, as, unlike some, I don't assume that one of them both has to necessarily be mafia ("if not this one then that one"). They could be both town, and my evaluations of them are independant from each other (though I doubt they'd be both mafia).
I'm sorry I didn't post yesterday like I said I would, stuff came up :/

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JoeSapphire: 13. A_Future_Pilot Most scummiest?
1st. Either Rodzaju OR Nmiller. I agree with nmiller that some of what Rod has done is pretty scummy, however, I agree with Rod that he clearly said that he wasn't in any danger. I think nmiller also had some pretty thin arguments though...but then again, as he said, ANY argument is gonna be pretty thin since we don't have much to go on.

As for 2 and 3, I'm think Jmich, pazzer, and/or possibly Telika. Though I don't have much more than just a feeling about them :/
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Telika: 1) Do you (YOU, reader) believe that mafia poisoning is unbalanced therefore a poisoning must be from 3rd party ?
No. I think they might can poison. If so there must be another mechanic to balance it though (as someone else mentioned this may be the coins).

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Telika: 2) Do you (YOU, reader) believe that a named player's house can be mentionned at the end of a pure fluff flavor (genuine, non invented) ?
No definitely not. If NFY named Damnation in the Rod's PM, then there's no way it's just fluff.

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Telika: 3) What is your (YOURS, reader) favoured interpretation of the lack of mafia kill in night 2 ?
Honestly I'm not entirely sure. I think a successful doctor prevention is the most likely explanation.

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Telika: 4) Did your (YOURS, reader) night flavor feature any seemingly game-unrelated startling action sequence such as falling down some stairs, or bumping into an elephant, or crossing the path of an angry snake ?
None whatsoever. In fact the beginning was the exact same as my previous PM, and then it just made a mention of me dreaming about the events of the day.
Good post Telika - Your response on it pretty much cleared yourself, and I consider you as town in my opinion.. while AFP is still in the list :)
Enough time should have passed for this part:
So, just realized something. Now that telika can be considered town, it will be a different setup yet again,
meaning that my initial list isn't the same. Again though finding myself wondering if I'm basing my trust correctly. Kamikaze to flag himself and then have buddies go along to and make them seem clean? Eerh, not really likely - rodzaju always was more random in my opinion and I don't really see this as a ploy, besides that masterplans are supposed to be forgotten. :D So if telika, rod, rob, me is town, that lowers the amount a little. Thereby a wild guess that had a high chance of being correct could be an option :), but for me the important point is that two of my prime suspects are still fully available as suspects no matter the crazy ideas of plans or not. Really certain is of course impossible, but for me its good enough to be considered in seriousness and thus should be followed by a vote.

Under the circumstances of my notions as to who is who by alignment: Either it will be pazzer or it will be AFP.
As I have stuck more faithfully with AFP he will by my first choice.

vote A_Future_Pilot
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Telika: I'd like a ask yet another poll question, although too few players are active to answer it.

Rodzaju said : "I would suggest that Telika was not poisoned, purely on the basis that he is not dead!" and Krypsyn interpreted it as Rodzaju accusing me of lying, while Robbeasy interpreted it as Rodzaju assuming my interpretation of flavor had been wrong.

What was YOUR (yes, YOURS, reader, the same YOU as the other time) spontaneous interpretation of Rodzaju's comment ?
I took it as him accusing you of lying initially, but Robbeasy's interpretation sounds equally valid.

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Telika: SirPrimalform posted "I'm not sure. How specific was Telika's flavour saying he was poisoned? I was under the impression that he just thought he'd eaten something funny, so it seems possible he was never poisoned to begin with?". But I had confirmed quite clearly (in my opinion) that I had been explicitely healed by a poisinong made explicit. So coming back to the "mislead flavour interpretation" theory is a bit odd to me.
I had either missed or forgotten that, all I remembered was your post from day 2 (?) where you weren't sure if you were poisoned or not.
I was going to make a post asking people whether they saw AFP as being as scummy as I do (and if not, why not?), but I see Red Baron has voted so perhaps people will re-evaluate AFP by themselves.

Just to reiterate:

Unvote A_Future_Pilot,
Vote A_Future_Pilot
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SirPrimalform: I was going to make a post asking people whether they saw AFP as being as scummy as I do (and if not, why not?), but I see Red Baron has voted so perhaps people will re-evaluate AFP by themselves.

Just to reiterate:

Unvote A_Future_Pilot,
Vote A_Future_Pilot
I have AFP as my second most likely to be scum.
I would rather lynch my "Mist likely to be scum", Nmillar.
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SirPrimalform: I was going to make a post asking people whether they saw AFP as being as scummy as I do
No, not really. He's the most scummy of my list of townies (I don't have a list of mafia but I have a list of town, I work by elimination), and I kinda treat him as a false positive for some reason. I may be unconvinced by his easy-targettedness, that I find very compatible with townism. I might be quite okay with his claim for now, too. I still expect him to get lynched at some point, so it would be good news if he flips scum. But this will happen without my vote, I don't really 'feel' it.

(And yes, I 'felt' vitek pretty much...)
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Rodzaju: I would rather lynch my "Mist likely to be scum", Nmillar.
I'd agree with that, NMillar being the scummiest on the last votecount list (I think it only lacks Red's vote for AFP).

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pazzer:
We're slowly nearing the deadline, let's be aware of that sufficiently long ago to avoid last minute panics.

Pazzer, any vote, unpdated scumlist, suspicion hierarchies ?

NotFrenchYet, any news from Krypsyn ? (Am on the verge of starting to worry a bit for real, is he okay ?)
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Telika: We're slowly nearing the deadline, let's be aware of that sufficiently long ago to avoid last minute panics.
ARGH! It's in three days!!

unvote Rodzaju
vote NMillar

I'm more convinced that Rod is bad, and that he should be having a harder time over this claim that has peaked my curiosity so but. It seems like more are ready to lynch NMillar and - well I want to believe he is town but I can't solidly justify all my reasons for thinking that he is.

ARGH THREE DAYS WHY HAS NO-ONE ELSE BEEN PRAYING??

Thank you Telika for pointing out the deadline. Your questions were

Q"What is spontaneous response to Rodzaju saying 'not dead therefor not posioned' "
A I guess I just thought "logic isn't quite perfect" I can't remember thinking about Rod's angle. Woah that's a bad answer isn't it...

Q "Are we to expect sloppy mafia plans from Rodzaju?"
A I think we are to expect... I don't know about sloppy, but resourceful plans from Rodzaju, no matter what his alignment. Resourceful and sort of in-the-moment but working towards a predefined goal. This is my psychoanalysis of his style of mind. Excuse me Rodza.
In the fairy game I remember he had a false post restriction claim ready from very early on. He was going to blame it on my crazy game set up. It never got enacted which he was unhappy about.
In the russian game he pretended to have more information than he actually had and gave away small pieces of information to stop town from lynching him. This, I think, was plan not-so-well-thought-out.
So I have no idea what he's thinking for this game, but I'm sure it is SOMETHING.


Robbeasy and A_Future_Pilot -

AFP's claim still seems genuine to me. I had forgotten about it until his most recent post. This is one reason why I think he's town.
The second is his reaction to the idea that Robbeasy might have a mafia-catching scheme by using his power. If I remember right AFP was one who was quite eager to not lynch Rob in favour of mafia-catching-plan.

Now the reason I asked Rob over and again to read up on AFP and then give us detailed claim was because I wanted him to read his reaction at the end of the day and then STILL say 'he seems scummy'

Bah. what I should do is go back and find the post and then send a link to Rob and then ask him about it directly but I can't be bothered. There's not enough time before deadline. ARGH. Forgive me I've typed all that stuff now.

Well. My thinking was, if Rob's genuine about his claim then AFP's reaction should seem pretty townish to him, but if Rob's lying about his claim then AFP's reaction shouldn't really mean anything to him.
Odd plan. Not quite in the heights of N0x0ss. It could have been great. Stupid Rob.

SO I WANT TO LYNCH RODZAJU AND ALSO PAZZER OR JMICH OR DAMNATION OR NMILLAR WHAT DO YOUS GUYS THINK?
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JoeSapphire: SO I WANT TO LYNCH RODZAJU AND ALSO PAZZER OR JMICH OR DAMNATION OR NMILLAR WHAT DO YOUS GUYS THINK?
Well 1 out of 5 is a start, I guess.....
OK - with deadline looming, time for a read list on everyone. I'm working IRL, so haven't got time to make this a detailed one with quotes and everything, it will be mostly off the top of my head with how I feel about people at this moment.

Joe - neutral. Always difficult to get a read on Joe - his mix of serious and not so serious is a right pain to be honest (no offence intended Joe!), and COULD be interpreted as a scummy way to post - almost deliberately sowing confusion. BUT - generally think its his playstyle so only neutral at moment. @Joe - i havent got time to go back and check - if indeed it was A_F_P's idea to wait then it gives him a few town points, but its no great tell - Mafia would be just as interested in seeing how / if my role played out without interference.

Rod - leaning Mafia. Now so far I've been pretty much on Rods side with the flavour thing mentioning Damnation, but the more I think about it the more it strikes me as odd. A MOD surely wouldn't just drop in something like that, which means Rod is lying - and lynch all liars applies here. Plus the info gained from a lynch of Rod would be beneficial anyway I think.

Jmich - neutral. No real read as yet. Most posts have been short and to the point. Almost tending towards lurkiness, as he has really kept posts down to a minimum.

Krypsyn - leaning Mafia. Difficult as he seems to have disappeared at the moment, but he didnt cover himself in glory on day one.

SPF - neutral. Sort of slipped through the days with nothing that has sprung out at me so far. He HAS been posting regularly.

Red_Baron - 100% Town. Hid behind him, didnt die. My PM explicitely stated if I hid behind a non-town player, I would be killed instantly.

nmillar - leaning Mafia. Attacked Rod with some poor reasoning, and had a very strange (for him) explosion when pressed, although that made me start to wonder, as it was a Town reaction to the pressure, or a very clever Mafia player. And I know nmillar is a clever Mafia player, so still leaning Mafia. If Rod should flip Mafia, strongly lean Town for nmillar

Twilight - neutral. slight suspicions because of vote position on Vitek, but nothing sticks out since. Which is odd, as he's been a regular poster...

Damnation - neutral. Town points for trying to stop the speedlynch of Vitek, but been a bit quiet on Day 3.

Telika - leaning Mafia. Still unsure on the poisoning thing - would have been an odd thing as a Mafia ploy to come out with on day 2, but then day 2 is when Mafia plots get started, as they have had Night 1 to hatch them. A couple of inconsistencies since keep him near the top of the list.

A_F_P - leaning Mafia. A lot of early vote following i put down solely due to being new at the game, but voting for Vitek even After Damnations plea to stop was a scummy move whichever way you look at it, and he hasn't exactly covered himself in glory on Day 3...

Pazzer - lurkity lurk lurk. Cant get a read, as his posting is very infrequent. Need to weigh up to whether its because he has trouble sparing the time to post, or is deliberately doing it to keep chances of a slip down to a minimum.


There we go then. The Rod / nmillar spat has thrown up some interesting interactions, but I'm coming round to the way of thinking Rods strange flavour cannot go uninvestigated - a lynch of him would yield the most information I think.

unvote nmillar

Vote Rodzaju
Love the fact that after Joe switched his vote from Rodzaju to nmillar, Robbeasy switched vote from nmillar to Rodzaju...


Can we get a votecount NFY?