That's alright Nick. All is forgiven. And you don't have to keep telling us that you're nmillar because it's written next to everything you post for you by the forum.

Are you serious, guys? Am I supposed to read all these posts?

Either some people are talking A-lot and posting very frequently (Making the others look slow-reacting...)... or some of us aren't participating enough, and are only very rarely posting any comments....

Pah, you're an amazing and charismatic serial killer in one legendarily unfinished mafia game and suddenly all your friends think you're a third party!

More seriously, I do feel that I should probably question this. Any particular reason or is it just a gut feeling?

He is scum, because he tries to do anything to paint Krypsyn as scum and even when takes his good defence (according to you) as reason for keeping vote, because he present theory that Damuna might be scum with Krypsyn, although he thinks she's town (had very similar thing in my recent game), because he mentioned jester and in my opinion, it's scummy thing to do (see G13),becasue he is speculating about Krypsyn's role and because how he jumped to Rodzaku defense.

You did these things?
Also, I didn't relly dig into your actions that game because of your claim.

Btw. Why some people consider Damuna town as was mentioned in recent posts?

Huh, someone responded to it? Who? Where? Why he did it?

Says the person who pushes me for reads since RVS.

And this we should take as good justified list of reads after your last poor one, right?
I am voted because I lecture people (oh, how unusual for me and my typical scum M.O.) and because I don't know who is scum.
Robbeasy is focused so he is mafia and Ubivis is mafia on exaggerated reason.
Yeah, sounds legit.
Yeah, I second this, you seem like you (Joe) just made it up for no particular reason.

Those thinking Krypsyn's Damuna thing is scummy, can you provide me with scum motivation for his actions?

This was the main reason I figured you might agree with me. FYI, for others, i was the one heraked over the coals in G13 for even slightly labeling someone a jester (Telika in that case). Spoiler alert: I was scum and Telika was town. ;)

I certainly have an answer here (several reasons, in fact), but unless you, or Damuna, insist I answer first, for some reason, I think I would like to see what other people say without me muddying the waters.

The following is empirical evidence and analysis of the game so far (up to and including post 367). I have provided a post count of each player, in addition to word and character counts. From these, I have calculated average (mean) words and characters per post. To determine word and character count, I have removed quotes and editing artefacts from posts; smilies have not been removed. In addition, I have provided a count of how many times each player has voted and how many times each player has been voted for. I have excluded joke votes for NotFrenchYet, pazzer (by himself), a no lynch and for Hector LeMans.

I have removed a post from JMich, SirPrimalform and myself: I removed JMich's first post, as it was posted before the game began; I removed SirPrimalform's buffer post, as its only purpose was to allow me to post again; I removed this post of mine, as it was made to correct Rodzaju's nested quotes. I have modified AFP's post count to reflect the fact that two of his posts were merged.

~

1a) This is a list of how many times each player has posted:

* JoeSapphire: 19
* Rodzaju: 48
* JMich: 9
* Vitek: 25
* Krypsyn: 56
* SirPrimalform: 33
* Robbeasy: 7
* Damuna: 43
* nmillar: 12
* Ubivis: 12
* N0x0ss: 40
* Telika: 16
* A_Future_Pilot: 29
* pazzer: 8


1b) Organised from highest to lowest this gives:

* Krypsyn: 56
* Rodzaju: 48
* Damuna: 43
* N0x0ss: 40
* SirPrimalform: 33
* A_Future_Pilot: 29
* Vitek: 25
* JoeSapphire: 19
* Telika: 16
* nmillar: 12
* Ubivis: 12
* JMich: 9
* pazzer: 8
* Robbeasy: 7


2a) This is a list of how many words each player has posted:

* JoeSapphire: 1971
* Rodzaju: 1771
* JMich: 592
* Vitek: 1312
* Krypsyn: 6188
* SirPrimalform: 1133
* Robbeasy: 816
* Damuna: 3221
* nmillar: 1096
* Ubivis: 689
* N0x0ss: 2048
* Telika: 2173
* A_Future_Pilot: 2284
* pazzer: 581


2b) Organised from highest to lowest this gives:

* Krypsyn: 6272
* Damuna: 3221
* A_Future_Pilot: 2284
* Telika: 2173
* N0x0ss: 2048
* JoeSapphire: 1971
* Rodzaju: 1771
* Vitek: 1312
* SirPrimalform: 1133
* nmillar: 1096
* Robbeasy: 816
* Ubivis: 689
* JMich: 592
* pazzer: 581


2c) As an average (mean) of their post count (to one decimal place), this gives:

* JoeSapphire: 103.7
* Rodzaju: 36.9
* JMich: 65.8
* Vitek: 52.5
* Krypsyn: 112
* SirPrimalform: 34.3
* Robbeasy: 116.6
* Damuna: 74.9
* nmillar: 91.3
* Ubivis: 57.4
* N0x0ss: 51.2
* Telika: 135.8
* A_Future_Pilot: 78.8
* pazzer: 72.6


2d) Organised from highest to lowest this gives:

* Telika: 135.8
* Robbeasy: 116.6
* Krypsyn: 112
* JoeSapphire: 103.7
* nmillar: 91.3
* A_Future_Pilot: 78.8
* Damuna: 74.9
* pazzer: 72.6
* JMich: 65.8
* Ubivis: 57.4
* Vitek: 52.5
* N0x0ss: 51.2
* Rodzaju: 36.9
* SirPrimalform: 34.3


3a) This is a list of how many characters each player has posted:

* JoeSapphire: 11011
* Rodzaju: 9449
* JMich: 3054
* Vitek: 7088
* Krypsyn: 32816
* SirPrimalform: 6105
* Robbeasy: 4233
* Damuna: 17728
* nmillar: 6029
* Ubivis: 3357
* N0x0ss: 10949
* Telika: 12348
* A_Future_Pilot: 12547
* pazzer: 3088


3b) Organised from highest to lowest this gives:

* Krypsyn: 32816
* Damuna: 17728
* A_Future_Pilot: 12547
* Telika: 12348
* JoeSapphire: 11011
* N0x0ss: 10949
* Rodzaju: 9449
* Vitek: 7088
* SirPrimalform: 6105
* nmillar: 6029
* Robbeasy: 4233
* Ubivis: 3357
* pazzer: 3088
* JMich: 3054


3c) As an average (mean) of their post count (to one decimal place), this gives:

* JoeSapphire: 579.5
* Rodzaju: 196.9
* JMich: 339.3
* Vitek: 283.5
* Krypsyn: 586
* SirPrimalform: 185
* Robbeasy: 604.7
* Damuna: 412.3
* nmillar: 502.4
* Ubivis: 279.8
* N0x0ss: 273.7
* Telika: 771.8
* A_Future_Pilot: 432.7
* pazzer: 386


3d) Organised from highest to lowest this gives:

* Telika: 771.8
* Robbeasy: 604.7
* Krypsyn: 586
* JoeSapphire: 579.5
* nmillar: 502.4
* A_Future_Pilot: 432.7
* Damuna: 412.3
* pazzer: 386
* JMich: 339.3
* Vitek: 283.5
* Ubivis: 279.8
* N0x0ss: 273.7
* Rodzaju: 196.9
* SirPrimalform: 185


4a) This is a list of how many times each player has voted, and which players they have voted for:

* JoeSapphire (1): Vitek
* Rodzaju (6): JMich, Damuna, Ubivis, nmillar, JoeSapphire
* JMich (0):
* Vitek (3): SirPrimalform, Robbeasy, Rodzaju
* Krypsyn (4): Vitek, Damuna, SirPrimalform, A_Future_Pilot
* SirPrimalform (2): Krypsyn (twice)
* Robbeasy (2): nmillar, Krypsyn
* Damuna (3): Telika, Krypsyn, N0x0ss
* nmillar (2): Robbeasy, JoeSapphire
* Ubivis (2): Rodzaju, JoeSapphire
* N0x0ss (1): Robbeasy
* Telika (1): Damuna
* A_Future_Pilot (3): SPF, JoeSapphire, Krypsyn
* pazzer (2): Telika, Rodzaju


4b) This is a list of how many times each player has been voted for, and who voted for them:

* JoeSapphire (4): Rodzaju, nmillar, A_Future_Pilot, Ubivis
* Rodzaju (3): Vitek, pazzer, Ubivis
* JMich (1): Rodzaju
* Vitek (2): Krypsyn, JoeSapphire
* Krypsyn (6): Rodzaju, SirPrimalform (twice), Damuna, A_Future_Pilot, Robbeasy
* SirPrimalform (3): Vitek, Krypsyn, A_Future_Pilot
* Robbeasy (2): nmillar, N0x0ss
* Damuna (3): Rodzaju, Krypsyn, Telika
* nmillar (2): Rodzaju, Robbeasy
* Ubivis (1): Rodzaju
* N0x0ss (1): Damuna
* Telika (2): pazzer, Damuna
* A_Future_Pilot (1): Krypsyn
* pazzer (0):

~

Anyone else feel older after that? Just me?

He seems to me (and I may be mis-remembering...it's very late), that he initially started attacking her to get a lynch (I think she just happened to be his target since she posted something to attack first). Then when it seemed like several other people were siding for Damuna, he back pedaled quickly and said that he hadn't really thought she was scum, that he was just testing her. Overall motivation: He wanted to try and start people thinking badly of her. Then he back-pedaled in a fairly scum-like way when things weren't going the way he wanted.


Also you both said that it was me saying he may be a jester that was the cause of me sounding scummy. I was just pointing out that it almost seemed as if he wanted to get lynched, and wanted to see if other's saw what I did, or if I was just reading too much into things. (Notice I didn't change my vote...I don't think he's a jester near strongly enough to unvote him...I was just voicing a concern to see what others thought.)

This should also include Krypsyn.

Yeah, so... you got me tons of lists for my birthday. You should know that my birthday was six months ago.. or six months from now... whatever... you are really off on your timing. Thanks though, because I did say I really like lists... and you got me lists... lots of them... like "OMG, WTF do i do with all this info?!" amount ... and... umm... how many many mason jars of pear cider do i need to send you back so you know how much I appreciated this? Ballpark? Will I need a forklift?

Seriously though. What does all this mean?

Interesting lists.
It shows I make a lot of fairly short posts.
I guess I'm no good at beating around the bush.
I'd rather beat that bush & see what jumps out.....

Speaking of which, with an average of 26 posts per person, we have 3 poeple with a post count in single digits.
I want to hear more from these people.
It is very difficult to get a useful, accurate read on people if they never say anything.

Just in case anyone was wondering, of those 6 votes, 4 were RVS not particularly serious votes.
Only those on Joe & Krypsen reflect actual meaningful votes.

Interesting read, though unless it can be compared to previous games, I'm not sure of how much use it is (other than the fact that some people like to vote a lot).
It is true that I don't post (or vote) that much, neither in this game, nor in the previous one, since I prefer the Vetinari approach. Stay silent and let the others try to fill that silence, thus revealing more than they wanted to.

Do an attack (half-hearted or not) against someone, be refuted with believable arguments, then declare that you are convinced (s)he's town. Defend that someone against other attacks, mentioning your previous arguments. When that someone flips town, you can manipulate others into believing you are town as well. Same thing can work with the target of the attack being a scumbuddy, since you will have an alibi for defending him/her.
Of course, the same thing holds true for N0x0ss and you.

Good argument. It actually fits what I did, superficially. Also it is exactly what I was trying to do as scum in Game 13, only Gazoinks never posted to give me an excuse to ever pronounce him innocent...

I'd say you have your answer.

What we've been working with so far is much too subjective. This gives us something objective to work from, and is true regardless of my alignment and regardless of whether I get killed tonight.

I had hoped that stepping back would encourage less active players to play the game.

What are we doing? We're building paper trails. Rather, those of us who are active are, so those paper trails are incredibly lopsided. Those advocating that we lynch Krypsyn are taking advantage of his commitment to the game; if we lynch Krypsyn, we will be lynching the most active player and shooting ourselves in the foot. Current votes on him come from SPF, Robbeasy, AFP and Rodzaju. (Krypsyn and AFP are voting for each other. I suggest that you both put down your guns, you're making idiots of yourselves.)

The worst thing about this game is that people differ tremendously in terms of interest and involvement in the game, and Mafia kills will tend to remove players who are active. This means Town players who aren't very interested tend to survive until the endgame. This is intensified by the fact that, if you don't say very much, it's hard to read you, so the Town will tend to lynch more active players.

This is completely wrong. Active players deserve the benefit of the doubt, because they are presenting posts that allow us to determine whether or not they're scum. Inactive players don't, and that is scummy. I think we need to lynch lurkers.

As such, Telika, Krypsyn, JoeSapphire, A_Future_Pilot. N0x0ss: I'm going to give you all the benefit of the doubt, and I'd like you to do the same with each other. If there's scum amongst those of us who are particularly active, their activity will provide the rope to hang them with. Besides which, one of us will probably die tonight anyway; why fight amongst ourselves when the Mafia are perfectly capable of picking us off?

Chances are good that most of the Mafia players fall within the rest of the group, and narrowing it down makes it easier to nail them. What's more, if we do this then some of us might have a chance at reaching the endgame, which will give us a fighting chance at winning.

Here's what I think you should do: Review the posts of those players who have contributed little to the game - it should be easy, since those at the bottom have so few posts.

Rodzaju and SirPrimalform have posted a lot, but without adding much; this is reflected in their averages. When I was counting posts, I was astounded by how many times Rodzaju has posted, because he has said almost nothing of value. This strikes me as incredibly questionable.

pazzer, JMich, Robbeasy, Ubivis and nmillar are not posting anywhere near enough. Here are my thoughts on them:

nmillar: You're either lurking or you're not very committed to this game. I would like to believe you are Town. Please post more.

JMich: Doesn't seem to be committed to the game at all, hasn't added anything worthwhile. Useless. Probably Town.

pazzer: Probably Town. Please post more.

Ubivis: My second biggest lurker target. Probably scum.

Robbeasy: Your posts stand out in that you have a high posting average when you do post, which tells me that you're lurking. You've posted all of seven times, and what you have posted fits with your scum play.

I would feel entirely comfortable lynching Robbeasy, and I encourage others to vote for him.

Unvote N0x0ss. Vote Robbeasy.