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JoeSapphire: Well I only switched off rodzaju because of panic about deadline.
"Panic about deadline" in what sense ?.


History

nmillar has 3 votes, cast by Rodzaju, Twilightbard and JoeSapphire
Rodzaju has 2 votes, cast by nmillar and Robbeasy

Telika :
"Would vote NMillar, won't vote Rodzaju."

nmillar has 3 votes and a half, cast by Rodzaju, Twilightbard, JoeSapphire and a speedlynch-wary intention by Telika
Rodzaju has 2 votes, cast by nmillar and Robbeasy

JoeSapphire :
"Aaaak, deadline. Must unvote Nmillar and vote Rodzaju or we'll vever make it."

nmillar has 2 votes and a half, cast by Rodzaju, Twilightbard, JoeSapphire and a speedlynch-wary intention by Telika
Rodzaju has 3 votes, cast by nmillar and Robbeasy



In deadline terms, what does it achieve exactly. Or : what was the actual motivation of that switch ?

Also, as I said, I'm curious about what light Rod's death would bring to his story, but I think that the price of lynching a townish player instead of a scummish one would be a tad high for this.
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JoeSapphire: Well I only switched off rodzaju because of panic about deadline.
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Telika: "Panic about deadline" in what sense ?.

History

nmillar has 3 votes, cast by Rodzaju, Twilightbard and JoeSapphire
Rodzaju has 2 votes, cast by nmillar and Robbeasy

Telika :
"Would vote NMillar, won't vote Rodzaju."

nmillar has 3 votes and a half, cast by Rodzaju, Twilightbard, JoeSapphire and a speedlynch-wary intention by Telika
Rodzaju has 2 votes, cast by nmillar and Robbeasy

JoeSapphire :
"Aaaak, deadline. Must unvote Nmillar and vote Rodzaju or we'll vever make it."

nmillar has 2 votes and a half, cast by Rodzaju, Twilightbard, JoeSapphire and a speedlynch-wary intention by Telika
Rodzaju has 3 votes, cast by nmillar and Robbeasy

In deadline terms, what does it achieve exactly. Or : what was the actual motivation of that switch ?

Also, as I said, I'm curious about what light Rod's death would bring to his story, but I think that the price of lynching a townish player instead of a scummish one would be a tad high for this.
All well and good, but like I've said, I've had a while to think about Rod and his flavour he came out with, and although I defended him at first quite strongly, on reflection I cannot believe the MOD just came out with it, mentioning someone else in Rods flavour just for the hell of it. Therefore there is l a lot more than meets the eye with Rods position.
Now remember Mafia rule one - Town DONT lie. Rod has been vague and omitted certain parts of his flavour to start with.

So - thats the case for the lynch.

Lets look at the benefits.

We lynch Rod. He turns up Mafia - I would say that would probably put Damnation in the clear, theres no way a Mafia would willingly associate himself with another Mafia player in such a way. Also it puts pressure on those who advocated NOT lynching him ie Telika....

We lynch Rod - he turns up Town. Instantly theres more pressure on his main opponent from Day 3 , nmillar. Also, we have to re-examine Damnation and Rod's flavour about him in a new light.

I don't see how lynching any of the other main protagonists gives us as much info. We have had two nights without a Mafia kill - lets use these 'extra' days to glean as much as we can shall we? Deadline approaches and if we have a no-lynch I will go spare and possibly have to go outside and lie down in the snow for a while to cool off...
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Robbeasy: We lynch Rod. He turns up Mafia - I would say that would probably put Damnation in the clear, theres no way a Mafia would willingly associate himself with another Mafia player in such a way. Also it puts pressure on those who advocated NOT lynching him ie Telika....

We lynch Rod - he turns up Town. Instantly theres more pressure on his main opponent from Day 3 , nmillar. Also, we have to re-examine Damnation and Rod's flavour about him in a new light.
All well and good, and this would tip the voting reasons towards Rod IF we apply the "principle of indifference", assuming Rod's chances to be mafia or town are 50%. I think it's not the case. I think there's more chances for a member of my "town group" to be town, and more chances for a non-member to be scum. And I weight the calculation with that. The question being : past how much probability to be townie/mafia is it worth aiming for the indirect benefit of a mislynch rather than the direct benefit of a mafia lynch. Past how much probability does the "consolation prize" of a light over Rod's claim outweight the chances of him to be townie. This depends on people's read on Rod's (and, for instance, Nmillar's) affiliations.

My impression is that there are enough chances of losing a townie when lynching Rod to justify aiming elsewhere, and these chances are not small enough to be quite compensated by the possible gain on the snakebasket story.

As for pressure if Rod flips mafia, I honestly doubt I'll feel any. I'm more anxious about co-lynching a townie NMillar than about not having co-lynched a mafia Rodzaju.
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Robbeasy: We lynch Rod. He turns up Mafia - I would say that would probably put Damnation in the clear, theres no way a Mafia would willingly associate himself with another Mafia player in such a way. Also it puts pressure on those who advocated NOT lynching him ie Telika....

We lynch Rod - he turns up Town. Instantly theres more pressure on his main opponent from Day 3 , nmillar. Also, we have to re-examine Damnation and Rod's flavour about him in a new light.
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Telika: All well and good, and this would tip the voting reasons towards Rod IF we apply the "principle of indifference", assuming Rod's chances to be mafia or town are 50%. I think it's not the case. I think there's more chances for a member of my "town group" to be town, and more chances for a non-member to be scum. And I weight the calculation with that. The question being : past how much probability to be townie/mafia is it worth aiming for the indirect benefit of a mislynch rather than the direct benefit of a mafia lynch. Past how much probability does the "consolation prize" of a light over Rod's claim outweight the chances of him to be townie. This depends on people's read on Rod's (and, for instance, Nmillar's) affiliations.

My impression is that there are enough chances of losing a townie when lynching Rod to justify aiming elsewhere, and these chances are not small enough to be quite compensated by the possible gain on the snakebasket story.

As for pressure if Rod flips mafia, I honestly doubt I'll feel any. I'm more anxious about co-lynching a townie NMillar than about not having co-lynched a mafia Rodzaju.
I dont think it will be a mis-lynch, I think Rod slipped up with this mention of Damnation in his flavour. We don't have ANY real info to go on today - heres what I know and what is claimed :-

Im Town - Vanilla now, I hid behind red_Baron.

Red_Baron - Town. Was out and about when I hid behind him.

Telika - claims Poisoned day 1, cured for Day 2.

NO Mafia kills. Thats just given me a thought actually....hows this for a theory...Mafia for some reason have to wait for a couple of days to kill, some mechanic or other. How best to throw confusion and at the same time potentially clear one of your own while doing so? Claim to be poisoned, then miraculously recover the next day.

Far-fetched?

hmmm

Anyway - onwards with claims

Rod - claims night flavour where he went for a wander, kicked over a basket with a snake in it, then recognised the house the basket was outside was Damnations.

Now that gives us very little to go on with (have i missed owt anyone?)

you could lynch me to verify my claim of town hider - but my flavour was corroborated by red_baron, and essentially why would i make it up? As Mafia, it would give me no protection, as it just makes me MORE likely to be lynchged at some point.

You could lynch red_baron, but same argument goes for him as for me - why would I say he's 100% Town and so am I - all on first day? Yes it could be a masterful Mafia ploy to give us a free run for a while, but essentially it would implode in our faces - one or other of us will be lynched to verify at some point, and if we were Mafia then its losing two members in one shot...

You could lynch Rod - for reasons I've given above I think he's the best option, im not repeating them here.

You could lynch Telika - poison story has the ring of truth, but could also be a Mafia ploy as we said to throw us all off the trail, and put a member in the clear, all in one hit. If Telika flipped Town, it wouldn't give us the info Rod would.

You could lynch nmillar - I personally think he could easiily be Mafia, and if Rod flipped Town he would be numero uno on the suspect list. But if he flips Town it doesn't give us a great deal. If he flips Mafia it doesnt give us a great deal of info on possible co-horts either.

You could lynch anyone, but no-one would give you info and possible leads like Rod would.
Argh, it's a repeat of Day 1! I wanted to lynch AFP then but there was no support.

Interesting turnarounds from Joe... Switches to the nmillar wagon because "Aaarhh, deadline!" and then back to the Rod wagon because it gained one vote. I keep trying to read some kind of bussing explanation into this where Joe and one of the other two are mafia but I can't work it out.

I think that one of nmillar and Rod are mafia but I can't decide which is more scummy. I would support whichever wagon looks more viable... but my brain says that the more viable one is probably the wrong one since the mafia are less likely to be on the right one. Ugh.
While I see arguments for lynching just about anyone, with preference to nmillar (due to his case), Rod (due to his flavor post) - But what I really see a benefit from would be to lynch ATP: Why?

Well he is a constant factor of discussion and suspicion. He have made odd moves and knowing what he truly is would clarify his actions in a whole new light.

While I certainly see reason for suspecting Rodzaju I won't mind having him alive, even more so should he gain more of that odd flavor :D

But yes, we would gain the knowledge that he was truthful - Personally I consider it likely that he is truthful and the only point I am in doubt about is his alignment. Problem is that I see a use for him alive if town and death if scum. Lynching him does of course bring either to conclusion, but well my feelings are more for getting rid of ATP or Pazzer in all honesty. I just suspect them more.

(Hence though I prefer ATP as main target, I can be convinced to vote for Pazzer as well). As for others I need to see some more convincing arguments.
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Red_Baron: While I see arguments for lynching just about anyone, with preference to nmillar (due to his case), Rod (due to his flavor post) - But what I really see a benefit from would be to lynch ATP: Why?

Well he is a constant factor of discussion and suspicion. He have made odd moves and knowing what he truly is would clarify his actions in a whole new light.

While I certainly see reason for suspecting Rodzaju I won't mind having him alive, even more so should he gain more of that odd flavor :D

But yes, we would gain the knowledge that he was truthful - Personally I consider it likely that he is truthful and the only point I am in doubt about is his alignment. Problem is that I see a use for him alive if town and death if scum. Lynching him does of course bring either to conclusion, but well my feelings are more for getting rid of ATP or Pazzer in all honesty. I just suspect them more.

(Hence though I prefer ATP as main target, I can be convinced to vote for Pazzer as well). As for others I need to see some more convincing arguments.
Is ATP Telika's new nickname (A Telika Person)?

AFP on the other hand, has simply done enough things to convince me wholeheartedly that he is scum. The benefit I perceive from lynching him is not the gaining of information or the explanation of some strange turn of events. It's that one of the mafia would be dead.
Doh, your right. Should of course have been AFP...

And yes same thing I feel (and should the unlikely happen: He won't be a constant suspect..and when he is a constant suspect he should get lynched.. and it would confirm his claim :P).
Alright, Joe, you asked me the following:

What's my favourite avatar?
Why did I choose to not namedrop other players in night PMs during mafia 11 (or 4 for that matter)?

As per avatar - yours is my favourite, based on the fact that you made it yourself, or at least I assume so, and that it is the most easy to distinguish of all avatars among players in the game. Hope that satisfies you :p

As per why I didn't namedrop other players. Simple, it essentially forces players to draw discussions in certain directions, meaning I, as a mod, make players discuss the topics I want them to discuss, NOT what they want or feel they should discuss - I alone hold all the information of the setup, therefore I must make sure not to draw any attention towards anyone. ANY mention of a player BEYOND your target in a flavour PM WILL draw attention and a lot of discussion about the player who is namedropped, and the player who received the PM - JUST as happened in this game. Hell, one of the main points of lynching Rob is to hopefully get info about the snake's relation to me. The snake brings me to be sidepoint, of why I asked you about Mehen and your "faulty memory :p". Had you been correct, it would have made me look upon the entire situation differently, as I chose NOT to mention earlier for specific reasons, along with the coins stolen from me was a small Osiris figurine. It's mostly because I follow a "less is more" principle when it comes to modding. Flavour-hidden hints to help town can be useful, but ONLY if done right - in many cases it turns into mod-metaing or outguessing the mod, rather than playing.

And the info I feel Rod's lynch will bring us about me being in the PM is whether NFY did not realise how powerful such a simple mention could be/She was aware and did it purposefully, or that Rob is scum or has a power role. I'm still quite certain you won't learn anything new about me :p

I also have a rather strange question for all of you:
How would a man who lives in a ragged house in a slum be able to afford expensive interior and windows?
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Damnation: I also have a rather strange question for all of you:
How would a man who lives in a ragged house in a slum be able to afford expensive interior and windows?
With a financialy rewarding activity which requires him to stay at this place. Either because the object of his activity is local, or because other environments are too hostile to his activity.
Dam, just realised Nmillar could be right about Rod baiting doc. As any mafia watcher would likely have watched Red. Thinking doc would protect power role. Just goes to show posting when half asleep not good.

Didn't realise deadline was so close. So will put my vote in for 5 day extension.


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Rodzaju: My point is that 2nd vote is often seen as a natural scum vote.
You learn something everyday I though it was 3rd and 4th votes.


Day 3 is normally the time town Nmillar starts finding the mafia and he does present a detailed case (p1256) against Rod. I don't recall Nmillar mentioning any of the first few points he brought up day 1. But that's not unusual as he seems to wait and make sure he has his case locked down before acting.

So find it slightly odd that he's voted for Rod and then appears to have gone back to find evidence to support that vote. Long cases tend to be made by mafia in a look at how much evidence there is against them how can they be town type way.

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JoeSapphire: Hm. Well while the lack of night kill so far is confusing I don't think that - either - the mafia have a poisoner role as well as night kill (because it's too much murder power) - or - that the mafia have to poison instead of standard night kill (because it's not powerful enough AND the initial murder described in the flavour was of butchery and not poisoning).
You seem to be trying to muddy the waters. As if there's 2 killing factions out there how come they haven't managed to kill anyone, seems very unlikely to me. Looking at wiki it seems “Poisoner is an anti-Town role who uses the poison as their implementation of the factional kill. “. So wouldn't give mafia too much murder power.

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JoeSapphire: The mafia have to PAY COINS for the nightkill and the most effective methods of kill cost more coins!
On the first night they have few coins and want to save them so they opt for slow poison.
Which CAN ONLY MEAN that they're saving up for UNBLOCKABLE TRIPLE-KILL
Not sure if your muddying the waters again or just joking. As quick look at first post says how coins work and would assume it applies equally to town, mafia and any 3rd party there maybe.

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Rodzaju: Possibly purely coincidental flavour, or maybe it means something, but the snake basket was outside Damnation’s residence.
Not encountered other players been named in flavour without a reason before. But then this game seems to be full of those. So will add it to the list. Maybe it will become clear later.

What colour was the snake?
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JoeSapphire: I might come back to this post because I see a fairly mafiotic mindset behind it.
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JMich: You mean the fact that I'd rather see someone lynched than not see a lynch? Yes, it is a mindset I currently have, and I think it's the same reason that Vitek self-hammered on Day 2. This game drags on and on and on, and with the absence of night kills, we have absolutely no extra informations to work with. Thus I'd rather see a lynch than not see one, even though I'd prefer to see a scum lynched than a town.
I entirely agree with this. As well as with the posts saying that we'll learn the most info if we lynch Rod. So I will also Vote Rodzaju

Now in response to the people calling for my lynch: on the one hand I understand it. I have had suspicion cast on me since day 1 (and I really didn't help myself), and I realize that lynching me would clear up that confusion. However I don't think the information gained from lynching me would be the most beneficial for town (at this point...there may come a time when it would be the best for town).

Red_Baron...dang it, I KNOW you're town (because of both Rod and because I thought Damuna before you was town). Because you're town, you have to see the sense of lynching Rod...it would really help clear up things (and if he flips town, we have an almost certain mafia in nmiller). If later on you still feel the need to lynch me, I will gladly give myself up, IF and WHEN the time comes that lynching me would be of most benefit to town. At this point, me flipping either way, doesn't really help anybody at all.

As for SPF, I really don't know. I haven't honestly thought much about you recently...I seem to recall thinking of you as a bit scummy near the beginning, but I'd have to do some re-reading to remember why. If you are town, I make the same argument to you as I made to Red_Baron. We need information, and he would provide the most.
Honestly I think you may be town, simply because you have stuck to the "lynch AFP" wagon all along, and since I trust Red_Baron, I may be able to trust you as well.


Well there's my two cents for now.
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pazzer: Not encountered other players been named in flavour without a reason before. But then this game seems to be full of those. So will add it to the list. Maybe it will become clear later.
Apart from Rodzaju mentioning Damnation, what other examples are there?
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pazzer: What colour was the snake?
No idea.
My pm didn't say.
Just so NFY doesn't miss it in my last post...

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