My issue with the 2x2 theory is that this makes each faction quite weak.
o we either have a weak town, or 2 very strong scum teams.
I am more inclined to think 3 man scum & either serial killer or vig.

Well, as others could confirm, I make up stuff as I go along just like everyone else. Sometimes I'm impressively right, sometimes I'm spectacularly wrong, and I can never tell which is it going to be, either. But I don't really see the two mafia theory as the most likely option at this point. There are some implications to whichever theory turns out correct, but until night two passes, we have basically no chance of figuring it out anyway, so it's just wasted effort. Good thing to keep in mind, though.

(I remembered now I wanted to address the xzyem wagon too, but quite honestly, I don't even see what the case is supposed to be there. I need to think about that some more.)

I do believe that at least 1 person on the Damuna wagon was Mafia. I have no doubts that the Mafia would jump on the chance to try to get a town lynched, and Damuna had painted herself to be the clearest target (and, it seems to fall into Damuna's own plan).

As for who it might be? I'm honestly looking at Stoic, Primal, and Rod with suspicion in that regard.

Stoic hits my radar because of his aggressiveness. He really hammered and attacked Damuna's post and didn't seem to let up for an instant, except when he got frustrated. I'm kinda concerned by this. Robb got flack for his aggressive attack on Damuna's self sacrifice post, but Stoic went pretty under the radar and repeatedly asserted that we should lynch her.

PRimal, I'm concerned, but not sure where to step for this. He had this sort of resigned feeling about the lynch, but I'm not sure if it was just 'Let's try to get something done', or 'Take advantage of a town that wasn't going anywhere'. His posts for the lynch weren't aggressive, but at the same time, he did push it more then others.

Rod's post about the Lynch all Lurkers, has me with mixed feelings, and I've made my point about it previously, and went off in Game 10 about this too. The action, especially at such an early stage, isn't town. But, at the same time, he didn't pressure this either, so I'm wondering if it was trying to soothe people to get us somewhere, or trying to give a scumbuddy a place to hide.

And another thing Lady French, just because Xzyem's style changed, doesn't mean we shouldn't look at that post with suspicion. Quick Read: Ok, I do see what you mean, but it's still an odd thing to see, and he very much blew off commenting on it when it's been brought up twice. I think that's a bit fishy when push comes to shove (especially when there's an easy response to it) that it sort of got blown off. A newbie Mafia can still learn and change their playstyle as they learn, but we can't discount old posts.

All and all, I'm going to turn around and do this. Vote Stoic He's pretty much at the top of my list right now, and I think some pressure is a good thing.

Fair enough. I've been a little preoccupied as of late, so I haven't given as much time as I should to forum mafia. As usual, I've got a ton of "idunnolos" and a few "omgmafias!"

My reads:

SirPrimalForm - Seems clean to me. He's been participating, but hasn't said anything that stands out to me as suspicious.

QuadrAlien - Neutral

Xzyem - Suspicious. He made a pretty noticeable transformation from a newbie to someone with knowledge near the beginning of the game--sudden enough that it seemed odd to me. His explanation of having done some research and learning does seem legit. But then, there's also the point that GoJays brings up in post 827: that xzyem wouldn't have thought that everyone was mafia if his PM had designated him as town. What's more, he hasn't addressed this at all. I may be completely off the mark here, but this one point really stands out to me as a warning light.

Rodzaju - Comes across as brazen as in game 9. No real reason to suspect him currently.

TwilightBard - Neutral

Detilk - Stands out to me, perhaps not as much because he's suspicious, but because of his quirky personality.

stoicsentry - I kinda agree with NFY that he seems to be harping on Damuna a little much, especially considering that she's dead. Is this reason enough to suspect him? Not really... but it's worth noting.

Robbeasy - Highly suspicious. His entire behavior on day 1 (and thus far in day 2, to a certain extent) has been very scummy. I reference my comments in post 732, and the discussion between both of us on page 33.

GoJays2025 - Neutral.

Red_Baron - Neutral.

NotFrenchYet - I dunno... NFY always seems too harmless to be mafia. Haven't seen her say anything that seems off so far. If I had to choose, I'd say that she's town.

bazilisek - Neutral.

Currently I'd peg Robbeasy and xzyem as mafia. Not so confident about using behavior quirks against someone after Damuna flipped town, so I'm not as confident about xzyem.

So, in light of all this...

vote Robbeasy

I think that's fairly accurate.

I've been the biggest proponent of going after Damuna since day 1. I backed off once or twice (such as when I voted for jefequeso), but only because we weren't getting enough posters on board to really turn the screws to her.

My frustration at this point is that someone brings it up, then I respond, and then I get accused of "not letting it go."

Well, it's unfortunate that Damuna ended up getting modkilled. I was disappointed that she ended up being town.

However, I remain unapologetic for my methods. I have maintained from the earliest point, and will continue to do so, that her behavior was the strangest of day 1. Now that we see she had the vengeful role, her activity makes a bit more sense. However, I still believe she played it wrong and if someone tried that again, I would make the same case again. If you think I'm suspicious because of my aggressiveness vis-a-vis Damuna, I respect that. And, I do acknowledge that I flew a tad bit under the radar. However, I hope you will grant me one point and that is this: I have not done anything that was designed to keep me under the radar. In other words, I laid out my case against Damuna over and over again and persisted with it throughout much of day 1, and never tried to hide anything. Be suspicious about me for the aggressiveness, fine, that's true... but I'm definitely putting myself out there. I became a bit suspicious about Rod because he threw me compliments about my gameplay and said something about how he's confident I'm town or something like that. Well I do maintain that I am town, but I guess I can't help but look a gift horse in the mouth. So I had a bad gut feeling about him.

On the other hand, in retrospect, I think Rod just appreciates players that mirror his own (seemingly) aggressive style. And so far, I do. So that's probably why.

This is what I personally call the "Damnation defence" (because our esteemed mod tends to do this quite a bit), and I can't say I find it a very convincing argument. Aggressive behaviour does not really imply townie status.

That's a valid point. I read it again and I stand by my read, but it's true xzyem's non-defence of that particular (and imho most damning) point doesn't look good.

@xzyem, care to comment on #426? Specifically this: Also, despite me picking on stoic for obsessing, I wanted to draw your attention to Damuna's last post...
Prophetic much? o.O;

I'm not advocating picking apart the setup at this point, and I flat-out disagree with point 1 (see #486). But since our three fresh corpses also had name and band and musician distinctions, this does look like something that will weigh into the flavour. The push for nameclaiming to catch scum with their pants down has lost momentum since we're now D2 though. Also, since the mafia appear to kill people with their own instruments, knowing people's instruments won't be so useful... As for names and bands, I'm not entirely sure how to make use of this information at this point.

A reminder too that we have monsieur Unknown to factor in... -_-

I will take that as compliment :)

I am not sure, but as I mention very often Xzyem is very suspicious to me, mainly due to the fact he has mustache. Sure having mustache is not a crime but twiddling your mustache all the time? That is scummy behavior.

Detlik, has a new day changed anything regarding your voting?

Only the thing that I am starting to have suspects, the thing about my role hasn't changed.

Hey people, I'm currently without laptop, and my desktop computer lacks a lot of the programs I use for moderating this game.

This means that a vote count will be delayed until my laptop returns from repairs (Hopefully early next week)

If the repair is done done beyond easter, I will see to getting one manually done the boring way

Detlik, could you respond to my questions hidden about halfway through that wall of mine a few posts back?

NFY, I'd very much like to hear your interpretation of the bit you've quoted of xzyem's #426: What do you read this as evidence of, and how?

Quoted for win :9 Thats how I saw mafia 10 :P

Some comments to the post in general:
Dunno if its just me, but if Detlik clearly doesn't want to say it (since he clearly mentions it without saying more), this strikes me as an obvious intent to get it out of him without having town interest in mind. As long as he is unknown he might not be the preferred target for scum. If he makes a full claim the mafia will likely consider offing him if his role is good enough - right know its uncertain and my guess would be that his newness to the game somewhat serves as a protection as well. I am surprised that you don't mention GoJays case against xzyem at all? That case should give you something, since you are already commenting that xzyem is doing some good scumhunting (which I don't understand since I can't recall a post where he actually hunted for scum??).

Gotta split your read about me a bit:

I know that I was not aware of who I voted for in the RVS stage when I made my unvote, but if your using this as a case in your argument at least get your facts straight... I was not voting for Damuna..I was voting for Jef! I was one of those complaining about the vote stacking on Damuna

Also fence sitting? Again that one. I don't see how I am considered to be fence sitting when I state my own opinion and disagree with others.. ? Also if I recall I took a clear stance with Damuna - and gave several reason for it. If I was agreeing with you and not taking a stance I could see what you mean, but I dislike being accused of fence sitting simply because I begin several of my arguments by lining up the opinions/reasons then stating my own + reaction due to it. If you read some of my older stuff from for instance you'll see that I tend to do that (either by writing or by quoting - however I have tried in this game to keep myself a little shorter in writing - Pink rule ;)).

Disagreeing with an argument or agreeing with it is now the problem.. so when you say:
your not doing exactly the same? Its a bit more simply to say that I agree with someone who made a good argument than restating it again. However if you might want to check again you'll notice that in those post its not just a "I agree" post, it begins with an agreement with my reasoning following close behind. I am also not agreeing with both parties of a conflict so explain please how agreeing with one.. or posting something that goes against someone else ideas is not stepping on any toes? What you actually want to say here is that you haven't seen me make major case against someone, because with the exception of two posts that would be more true.

This part is almost spot on what type of posts I have written quite a bit of.. yet thats what you find so scummy?

Final stuff - hope it can be in one post.

Other than doing so seems quite like an attempt not to step on any toes as you have accused me of? Or that it could be scummy? I am pointing this out because I see your case against me being based on some sort of individual idea rather than then actual arguments your presenting. (If that made sense)

Huh? Good questions and scumhunting? As already said I don't recall seeing that from him. I recall GoJays hunting him, but not the other way.


Though the question weren't to me, I'll use this to give my two cents about it.
I believe they read it as him saying that he thought all players was mafia and was to kill one another - thus he must be mafia to gain that misconception (if he was town how would he get that idea). What is apparently missed is that it can also be interpreted as him talking about his ideas of the game before the game began.

Already in this game, someone (I'm thinking xzyem or stoic, and I'm too lazy to check) said that hinted-at information is ultimately for the benefit of scum (which is an argument I've been rather successfully using in M9 since day one, if you care to remember). They start with more information than town, and softclaiming a power role of any kind gives them even more information than that -- remember, they will know that Detlik is telling the truth following the simple maxim that townies never lie, because they know whether or not he is a townie (a luxury the rest of us don't have). Also, if there is something to figure out and one scum figures it out, they share it with everyone else in the group, but if there is something to figure out and one townie figures it out, well, the rest of town is none the wiser. If anything, this is deepening the information gap between town and scum, which is not to our benefit at all.

Also please notice that I'm saying that if Detlik thinks it would be unwise to press further, I will not do so. I cannot hope to guess what kinds of roles there are in this game; the mysterious voter is enough proof of that.
I'm afraid it's you who should get your facts straight. It's the votecount in #88 that has it wrong, but that's hardly my fault.