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TwilightBard: 3) OK, I shouldn't bring the Day 2 Krypsyn into this, but I'm throwing this bone out in terms of the lynch. Anyone who is on the wagon is on it regardless of how they felt. If you put it in, then you signaled an agreement to lynch, and everything else is background to that bolded text. You may have just wanted a lynch, but you had plenty of time to make cases and arguments elsewhere. In fact, I was BEGGING people to do it to no avail.
And you still feel that yesterday's lynch was useless, Bard?

(Sympathies with OO - we have that at work and until my collegue got used to it, there was a constant stream of swearwords flowing across our office when she tried to bullet-point / number things...)
Sorry this is some hours late :p

But in response to Baz suggesting an extension of the deadline, you have until this saturday, 23:59 GMT+1.

That is, Deadline: Saturday, 30th of June, 23:59 GMT+1
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Robbeasy: Pardon me for being a bit slow here - could you point out exactly where you were confirmed Town?

It's a lot to trawl back through, and as far as I was aware, no-one is actually confirmed as anything in this game yet...
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Detlik: Here :

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NotFrenchYet: I'll be damned if I die with secrets!

I found out Detlik's flavour on N1. He's Joacim Cans and he's the singer for Hammerfall. Yes I am a name cop. I'll buy patisserie for anyone who spotted my breadcrumb.

With the state of the game right now, I figured this was an expendable role, since it'd presumably only become useful in the closing stages when whatever checking role there is also comes out into the open. Right now you guys desperately need a lynch to work with, and I would bet my vocal chords that there was scum on this wagon.
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Detlik:
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GoJays2025: So far all the town deaths are the vocalists of metal bands. I'm not sure if it's different for non-townies, but if all townies are in fact vocalists, then NFY's reveal of Detlik could mean Detlik is town.
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Detlik: And I confrimed it
I'm sorry???!! I shall ask once again, and I'm surprised no-one else has picked up on this - how the hell does that actually make you Town? You have had your Name and Role confirmed ONLY - NOT your affiliation.

I find it just as believable there could be a Mafia Hammerer as there could be a Town Hammerer.

Or am I missing something here???
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Robbeasy: I'm sorry???!! I shall ask once again, and I'm surprised no-one else has picked up on this - how the hell does that actually make you Town? You have had your Name and Role confirmed ONLY - NOT your affiliation.

I find it just as believable there could be a Mafia Hammerer as there could be a Town Hammerer.

Or am I missing something here???
Considering our double-voter flipped neutral... I don't know how likely it is that the mafia would get a hammerer. But you're right that Detlik isn't at all confirmed town.

@Detlik, the vocalist thing can't really be used yet since coincidences can and do happen (cough, game 9). Band front-people tend to be vocalists, and we appear to be a collection of front-people. We don't have any mafia corpses to prove it either.
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NotFrenchYet: @Detlik, the vocalist thing can't really be used yet since coincidences can and do happen (cough, game 9). Band front-people tend to be vocalists, and we appear to be a collection of front-people. We don't have any mafia corpses to prove it either.
Drat...I thought I am on to something

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Robbeasy: snip
Sorry my first game, didn't realize my affliction wasn't said...but still by your actions, you are the scummiest in my eyes.
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NotFrenchYet: Likewise, RL strikes again: I'm moving house tomorrow, and travelling all Tuesday. :/

I could get behind a wagon on TB, Robb or Baron at this point. Baz's play is niggling the hell out of my but I'm having real trouble articulating it in terms other than "compared with previous games it feels all wrong". :S
You could get behind a wagon??

Well do so - even if its me!. Im going to complain again here, so be warned....

As Town we have ONE weapon, and that is a vote. Simply saying 'you're suspicious' and saying you're willing to get behind a wagon, without actually voting, leads us into situations about to come up this weekend - deadline is looming, and we're no nearer finding anything out, because theres been literally no pressure put on ANYONE. FFS, the nearest we've had to lynch today is L-3.

Thats pathetic folks. We have to apply pressure to get slips - the Mafia are getting such an easy ride this game, its no wonder we're struggling.!!!!

Rant over - and my vote stays on TwilightBard. I've given my reasons, now could we please have some input and voting from the rest of you that are sat with your thumbs up your asses and are not voting!

Pre-post edit - nothing personal NFY, I could have picked several other peoples posts to give my rant emphasis, yours was the first I came across..;o)
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Robbeasy: Pre-post edit - nothing personal NFY, I could have picked several other peoples posts to give my rant emphasis, yours was the first I came across..;o)
I agree with everything in your rant, pretty much, but I find your selection of NFY to be humorous in this case. She has, actually, already voted for the same guy for whom you have voted. ;)
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Robbeasy: Pre-post edit - nothing personal NFY, I could have picked several other peoples posts to give my rant emphasis, yours was the first I came across..;o)
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Krypsyn: I agree with everything in your rant, pretty much, but I find your selection of NFY to be humorous in this case. She has, actually, already voted for the same guy for whom you have voted. ;)
Oooops!! Indeed she has....

any apologies NFY, please forgive. Rant stands for all those others though...;o)
Okay... good to see people participating again.

Now then... I suck at reading people, but Krypsyn seems to be leaning town for me, as is stoic now (again) - his responses don't seem scummy. I mean, even from just coming straight out and saying he was blocked, I'm not sure he would have done that if he had anything bad to hide. Baz hasn't changed for me - still looks to be town.

Detlik... not sure about him, doesn't appear to be scum though. It may be his first game, but I think that also makes him dangerous because he could use that newbie perception to his advantage. I'll put him as neutral for now.

Looking at the posts today though, I will have to agree with Krypsyn (#1569), SPF is leaning more toward scum for me now, simply because he seems to be playing pretty cautiously (and appearing kind of neutral to be honest), popping up occasionally to say something but not really revealing too much.

The rest... I'd say neutral to slightly leaning scum.
And my rant seems to have little or no effect - people, the Mafia are sat there laughing at us!!!!

FFS DO SOMETHING!
Okay, been reading up upon current events and I seem to have solved my issue with not knowing why Twilightbard was mentioned, he was roleblocked not a possible roleblocker, guess Krypsyn just managed to confuse me :P
This is my thoughts in order of reading (When I stumble upon something of note - since with my absence I am trying to post what I would have if I had been active)

First of this part of the theory by Baz: Hypothesis 3: GoJays is scum. TwilightBard and stoicsentry are town.
- Makes no sense. Stoicsentry has no reason to lie, therefore GoJays would have believed his claim. Blocking a vanilla townie is wasting a night action.
- Ruled out.

Actually it doesn't have to be rules out, as if GoJays was scum, then he would at this time also have a notion that someone is also going around killing, unless 1 faction have to kills, which I doubt. Hence he could be trying to find the other killer, be it SK, Vigilant (doubtful, since if town I guess that couldn't be stoic) or another faction.
Point being: GoJays doesn't necessarily have to believe the claim.

That said, I should note that I don't really feel that is what happened, as it seems kind of random.

I am still unsure as what stoic is talking about when he says "Vet", veterinarian? I don't follow.

But I have noted that people tended to come around to the idea that stoic is believable, but I must say that so far (as of page 103) I don't agree.
His defense have been to much a case of questions (repetition of a bad point among them often) and some odd statements.

Let me elaborate:

He notes in post 1515: "Only thing that jumps out to me about Jays is that he wasn't NK'd. Which leads me to believe 1 of 3 things: 1) mafia didn't believe his claim (I think they did believe it, so I'm ignoring this one), 2) Jays is mafia, or 3) mafia doesn't have any power roles.

I suppose 2 is possible. I'm thinking 3 is more likely, though. The way this game is going, it doesn't look like mafia needs any power."

So here he is saying that he believes that the mafia doesn't need any power - I don't really see it making sense, a mafia without a kill power at least would be rather useless.
Hence we come to his second post 1531:
"If I understand what JOAT is, then I don't think he's that... mafia seems to be quite powerful."

So I can judge this in two ways; First he says they don't need power, then that they are powerful - which is odd, but more likely I guess that its a case of bad wording. He means powerroles, and that fits with the fact that he don't believe a JOAT. As to why he believes that I don't have a clue, hence why I am pointing to this.

And the rest of that post of his is just a bunch of babble in my opinion, stating both opposites and arguing against it, making it nonsense. And he then once again restates (in another form) that GoJays should have roleblocked someone as well, which if the theory proposed about them both being scum is true, wouldn't be the case. Unless of course he blocked the same victim that they nightkilled, which I guess there could be some small merit to?
His only good point in my opinion is the one about it being a game where there wouldn't be much reason of taking risk for the mafia, but given that he have already been in focus - same with GoJays as NFY pointed out, it is a best an argument which is damn hard to gain much from.

Krypsyn makes a good point about the survivor, which I agree with since I played one in an earlier game and was lynched due to the argument of it being scum race, even after stating an intent not to win with the mafia.. I get the reasoning for why one would be against the survivor, but as the mafia can kill, I would personally consider the survivor to gain more benefit from sticking with town trying to oust the mafia, but heck they are neutral in my head.
Along those lines I see why Krypsyn has the point about 3 scum one SK in the same post (1536), but given that survivor is neutral I ain't entirely sure I follow the logic, we could for instance still be dealing with 2 factions as well if that amount of anti-town was to be noted. But one more or less doesn't really matter for now.

Twilightbard makes some points a I agree with, in regards to arguments from Stoic, though I am not entirely sure I like the wording of many of his posts, seems unlike the Bard I seen before.

But that brings me to Robbeasy's post 1540. Huh was my first reaction upon reading. While I believe that stoic's defense haven't given of a specific scummy vibe,
it surely haven't given of a innocent vibe either as Robbeasy seems to think and with the addition that Robbeasy doesn't believe Gojays as much is very odd from my viewpoint, I would find the role blocker more believable than the town vanilla receiving a pm about role block.
I get why he have a feeling about Twilightbards post, as noted before I feel them a little unlike the usual style I have tied to him, but I am far more interested in the switch of targets based on a defense I don't see serves as a proper argument for that switch.

Hence while reading his post I came up with the following theory about what occurred:
GoJays forgot the claim (given that I in this scenario have him assigned as town)
He roleblocks Stoic (who is given the role of 1 of the scum)
His partner (which I have placed as Robbeasy is the one performing the kill)
Then stoic admits to being roleblocked in an attempt to control the action and gain something from it
The partner Rob, tries first to stick it to Rob, while voicing suspicion at stoic, then when enough time have passed and other posts of possible devious intend have risen, focus changes to Twilightbard and thereby readily accomplishing two things: Get stoic conveniently "confirmed" as town and kills Twilightbard who is likely to have a powerrole (+ have had problems with suspicions before).

Problems: I dunno if they could really plan ahead or at least act well together like this without possible discussions about it, but as a counter to this, I trust that Robbeasy is skilled enough to pull something like it off, even without conversation with stoic.

Now, this is my view as of post 1545, I will continue with the rest - doing the same as above and then put it together to my current view. So more coming
Moving on to the next part, Krypsyns reasons for suspecting Twilightbard. I like them a lot more than I do Robbeasy's argument for the same thing. What he notes might be what tributes to the oddnes I feel while reading Twilightbards posts, but for now I must admit that I am still more inclined towards stoic
Robbeasy makes a posts (1549) of activity, and the odd nod that he doesn't mention the option as to thoughts why Twilightbard isn't scum. Not that I can give any either way. And prodding was done, so it serves its purpose.
Some more posts and another act for activity from Rob - not much to say - noting to look for Krypsyns review of Robbeasy.

Then the posts from Krypsyn, of which I already posted some response, mostly that I don't see what he is getting at, but not much to do if he reads it that way. Not sure I entirely like the questions for some odd reason.. meaning the questions for NFY.

Twilightbard is absent until after lynch.. either true (likely given the bad policy of lying of those things if I recall correct), and earns some points in my favor - though admittedly also a good way to stay under the radar.

Detlik posted (1565): A list - he is confirmed of name, and claimed to be what? Only recall it being someone who can only hammer vote? But I don't recall it actually being confirmed. I only recall his name being confirmed. The post of his doesn't say much, other than voicing his suspicion of Robbeasy, primarily because Robbeasy suspected Detlik. Not something I like, finally some rehashing of old knowledge, though confirming I guess Detlik's opinion of the matter.
Don't really like the fairly flimsy nature of that posts, that comes across to me as mostly a filler (granted I haven't a clue as to if he has been truly absent, but he have established a reason not to vote and a pattern of staying silent, yet reacting when people start missing him). Actually it doesn't sit well with me at all that he has made a point of saying he is confirmed when as I read on he clearly ain't.
He is confirmed vocalist and confirmed in name. The only thing supporting his town alignment is that everybody aren't vocalists, and besides Damnation we have seen no sign of that to be the case.

Actually I would FOS Detlik for this.. I could write it down to newness, but it sits all to convenient with me this "confirmed" talk and even a reference to NFY's posts as proof of confirmed town.. which it is not.


Another list by Krypsyn - which I don't really have much to say on (don't really agree with it all, but well I've believe to have expressed that), other than what I already voiced, yet to see review of Robbeasy, but mentioned by him so apparently not forgotten.. positive.

Two down for the strike and Twilightbard active again: Making some points of wagons and one I somewhat inclines to agree with, that Krypsyn referring to his former selfs reads as his own is a somewhat dubious thing, as his former role was town it could be a ploy to stay "town". Other than that I do also understand the reasoning for not changing ones view, even more so given that Jef is disappeared not I assume guiding Krypsyns thoughts. Still I would like a more clear distinction, similar to what NFY did.

Krypsyns response (1579) to my post. I guess that is a likely reason as to why I had you down as scum, and granting that it makes it a tougher choice. So far though I don't really see things in the same light, even if your still trying to get something out of a post I upon re-reading it don't see making a lot of sense.. mostly since I can rather clearly see that I must have mis-read you since I am making the somewhat same argument you made for why you didn't consider me scum. And also I notice that I apparently went AWOl after that, typical. Anyway I believe that I am the one in error in that post.

Oh Robbeasy actually notes the same thing as I did while reading Detlik posts.. Ironically that calls me to be less firm with my notion of the earlier "somewhat likely theory" of the GoJay, Stoic scenario.
Another rant by Robbeasy, not sure if 100% guanine those, as if my theory is correct they provide posting activity without risk, actually even some town gain from being helpful. This one does however have relevance to NFY's post (even if wrong subject :P) and admittedly I am not delighted with words about getting behind wagons (which I assume to have been the main trigger).`

Finally GoJays, whom I still consider the roleblocker town, even if the SPF thing is an area which I am not sure why is popping up? I considered that SPF was just genuinely inactive.

Lastly another activity post by Robbeasy.


Damn, a lot of stuff.

Well, from this I still haven't gained a perfection notion that my theory of Robbeasy+Stoic is either completely faulty nor that it is correct.
So FOS to Robbeasy

Detlik is in my light and in some ways I would prefer to lynch him most given that I don't like how easy he could dawdle along the beach without fear, but not anything good enough other than notions and spider-sense, even if he is a hammer. So the FOS Detlik in effect

Finally there is the whole storm of Twilightbard, GoJays, Robbeasy and Stoic, and in my opinion the easiest and most surest way to solve it would be to lynch Stoic, since that would reveal most evidence. It would tell us if vanilla town does get block pm's, if GoJays blocked him and in return that Twiligthbard was blocked and it would shatter or improve my own theory of the events.
Also of the mentioned Stoic is a as far as we know none-powerrole.

I can't really get behind the vote on Twilightbard, while I sense something off as opposed to his usual posts, I also find myself agreeing with him and not really getting a scummy notion specifically from him and with my theory still standing in my way, its just another reason why I don't see him as my preferred lynch.

As such:

FOS Robbeasy
FOS Detlik

vote stoic


Hope this thoughts as I read along have given a bit clearer picture of my thoughts - at least it brought be a bit more back to speed.
Welcome back Red!!

A comforting wall of text there..

I really dont get how you have managed to link me Stoic, but as a reply i will say your logic of lynching him as least likely to damage is a good one - get lots of info from his lynch, and if he does turn out to be town, he will be vanilla.

I'm happy to switch my vote to stoic - but it remains on twilight for the nonce
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Red_Baron: ...guess Krypsyn just managed to confuse me :P
Yeah, I have gotten this complaint before. I tend to have byzantine logic at times, so it isn't uncommon for people to ask me for clarification on a point or two.



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TwilightBard: Making some points of wagons and one I somewhat inclines to agree with, that Krypsyn referring to his former selfs reads as his own is a somewhat dubious thing, as his former role was town it could be a ploy to stay "town". Other than that I do also understand the reasoning for not changing ones view, even more so given that Jef is disappeared not I assume guiding Krypsyns thoughts. Still I would like a more clear distinction, similar to what NFY did.
Okay, you are the second person to bring this up, so I suppose it might be an issue. I half-ignored TwilightBard's objection, because I figured it was just OMGUS attack on me for my case against him. However, maybe there is a problem here that needs addressing.

The trouble is that I am not sure how to play differently. As always, I can only call things as I see them. One Night-cycle is not enough for me to have drastically different reads than the Day before (even as another incarnation). I figured it would be more helpful for town for me to show how my opinions have changed since the previous Day, rather than just starting completely over from nothing. Should I refer to my previous character as Krypsyn1 and the character I am playing now as Krypsyn2, like NFY has done? Is that what you meant?

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TwilightBard: ...noting to look for Krypsyns review of Robbeasy.
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TwilightBard: ...yet to see review of Robbeasy, but mentioned by him so apparently not forgotten...
*sigh* Yeah, it is not forgotten. I am just being lazy about it. I really don't want to go back through several hundred posts (again), so I have been procrastinating. I'll post it by the end of tomorrow.

As for the rest of your post, I'll need to digest it further. However, I am happy to see you back and posting! :)
EBWOP: Yeah, it wouldn't be a post from me without a dumb error...

All my quotes in the above post should have been referencing Red_Baron. I must have made a typo in the second quote that I continued copying for the remainder of the post. Not a big deal, but I didn't want it to lead to any confusion. :)