It's funny, I see these mini-squabbles going on back and forth between several players, but I can't really make sense of them.

Would someone like to lay out a compelling argument for me to switch my vote from Damuna to someone else? I"m all ears.

Indeed, my post rate has been shocking recently. I'll try and keep up more.

The problem is, I'm really having an issue adding things which haven't already been said by the time I've typed out a bit about them. Though I'm going to finally get around to placing an actual vote.

Having read through Damuna's post and have been trying to work out how giving names only will help our situation. It seems to me (though I'm sure people have already mentioned this) that the suggestion that the Mafia will not have had the chance to talk yet misses the problem that they do not necessarily require coordinated cover stories for their names - the only possible problems that can be immediately gained is if their claimed name matches a town player. I personally feel that it'd be unlikely they had related names anyway, but if they did they wouldn't reveal it by just going and telling everyone.

However, there's a section that wants to draw attention to some particular suggested names or jobs of people that might be included. It's occurred to me that the entire suggestion might be some way of trying to structure a way of using a Town-looking plan for rooting out the power roles.

While it might be simply a possible general downside of the entire mass-claim (or mass-name-claim) suggestion, I think for the moment I'll vote Damuna, as I feel there's more of a chance of names being related to powers than to alignments. Although I admit the accusation does have the weakness that I should probably ask "Does Damuna know this?" :P

Also, with regards to the plan immediately after "second": I'm against this plan, partly due to the fact that I believe it's a violation of the rule on PMs, and mainly due to thinking that if I did support it I'm fairly certain this time I would be lynched instantly just in case. :P

The "Unknown" is naturally a complication, but I'm not entirely sure if a doublevoter (if indeed it is some manner of doublevoter) is going to necessarily be anti-Town.

o.O; Patronising? Have you stooped so low?

However, I admit you're right about the non-existent wine.

My #520 was really badly phrased; let me clarify: I appreciate what Damuna says she was trying to do. The rest of her post I don't agree with.

Good point. Really I expected that to be the first thing someone would leap on when attacking mass-claiming.

I'm going to be scarce again next week I'm afraid...

A quick post, before I gotta go.

No reason to put multiple votes on him before that became clear then ;) But anyway - I know the notion behind it - I was just a bit surprised at the amount of votes needed to test the plan out.

On another topic - I don't agree with your post about Viteks post 523 being wine, its rather obviously a post questioning Damuna's - Not his own wine. (Questions of which I assume will be answered when Damuna returns). So far its a bit a tough to get a true grip in something other than the whole Damuna situation, although the exchange between NFY and Vitek did catch my eye as well.

So far my reads goes as this:
Damuna: If truthful about her weird post she might be town, however the post explaining her weird post is also a weird one mostly containing guess work some of which could be harmful - which I don't see as a town action. A private theory of mine, that emerged after some pointed out the likely chance of 4 mafias, is that its split just like in game 9. And Damuna would be hunting for the other ones. Problems with that theory: I have nothing to base it on other than guesses and I would find it odd for it to happen so soon after mafia 9. But worth considering the possibility. So in my eyes: Damuna is leaning scum.

NFY: Had her down as leaning town, the odd exchange between her and Vitek makes her lean scum, so I guess she goes down to neutral (Being in between both leans :P).

Vitek: Seems eager to hunt, which can go both ways; either active town or scum trying to get a hit. Inclined to say leaning town as well.

SPF: Didn't like the voting for unknown reason (goes for others as well), but can't really judge much from that other than he was willing to suggest a wagon on an unknown player(post 492). General feeling comes down to him being a suspect.

Rob: A bit of a curious deal with the whole unknown thing, but nothing to decide alignment from, only some to ponder about in regards of the unknown voter. I don't agree with Damuna about him :)

Stoic: Comes of as an eager new town player - which I like. A bit to eager maybe, but he shows to me as town.

The rest is kinda tough to get a read on... since they aren't posting? Where did Jef, Twilightbard, Detlik, Rodzaju, nmillar (been 4 days) and xzyem (said he would be back on Saturday) go? Is it just the weekend taking its toll or a they just preparing a good lengthy post of theories, like I know for instance Twilightbard can :D Hope the later, since not saying much makes it hard for us to move forward - granted: before Damuna returns we're missing a link - but still there must be some more reactions towards her post or something. For instance I am still puzzled by Jef's reaction to what stoic pointed out in Damuna's post (about the mod is mafia thing), I thought that it was clearly intended as a joke, not a mistake as stoic suggested.

Damn time's running - I had something more - But I'll get around posting it if I still recall it after I get back from this birthday part :D Have a good Sunday.

Well, my vote was first. I had no power over additional votes. ;-)

@NFY; So why did you accused me of bringing up wine when you admit it's non-existent. You tried it before to innocently point at me with some small stuff and this lookes like you're doing it again.
How can you say someone is leaning town because of her arguments in one post and then say you disagree with most of her post?

I only realised it was non-existent when you challenged me about it - I was interpreting the high number of questions as an attempt to raise a dozen possibilities at once.

You're saying because I disagree with Damuna she should be on my scumpile Disagreeing with someone's idea doesn't mean I have to think they're scum. By this logic if I agree with someone I'm scum for buddying, and if I disagree with someone I'm scum for not thinking they're scum.

The "before" you speak of was, I assume, #65. Apart from the fact that this was a open hand post to show my working, answer me this: do you really expect anything said so early on in the game to have ANY relevence later?

Baron, "the amount of votes" on Unknown was 3. In a 16-player game that's hardly a sizeable wagon...

OK, so you are clearly not a singer.
I can't see you as a musician (You pose far too akwardly with that Mandolin).
SO what exactly ARE you doing here?

My suggestion of 4 scum only really holds if they are 1 faction.
a 12/2/2 split would make the mafia too weak to compete, unless each member was very strong.
I suppose a double voting scum would go a long way to evening things up, but I think a single faction is more likely.

Checking in, guys.

Had a bunch of tests and crap like that to deal with before Spring Break. And I'll probably be gone Tuesday-Thursday, too.

Hmm...

Also, it's a bloody mandola! There's no way that could be a mandolin, I'm 6'!

EBWOP: I screwed up part of my last post...

Should read:

Are you saying that because I disagree with Damuna she should be on my scumpile? Because simply disagreeing with someone doesn't mean I have to think they're scum. By this logic you could say that if I agree with someone I'm scummy for buddying, and if I disagree with someone I'm scummy for not thinking they're scum...

No but you didn't say you disagree, you said she is leaning town because you agree with her while you disagreed with most of her post.

Yeah, that's it. I listed it before. I don't think it has too much relevance but you apparently did when ou felt need to announce you are noting it.

Also I resent that comment about my posture..!

That just happens to be my natural playing posture. D=

It looks as if you are trying to use the neck of the instrument to comb your hair......

My hair does occasionally fall on the fingerboard actually... but it's usually behind the neck. >.>

@Mod: Votecount, please!

The unknown voter is interesting, I can think of four scenarios.
1. The unknown is a player not on the player list.
or if they are on the player list:
2. They can't vote normally (at least while having the "secret" vote on) -> we should test for this.
3. They can vote normally, but one of the votes (most likely the regular vote) doesn't actually have an effect -> The unknown is likely scum, but it'd be a bitch to test.
4. They are a double voter, where the second vote is hidden -> They are probably town, and (if that is the only ability they have) should come clean.