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(Reaction to the 5/10 dealio thread)

Maybe it's not my place to bring this up (after the occasional shitting bull I've left around here and there), but I do feel like there tends to be a bias here, in the sense of "GOG vs. other digital retailers, most notably Steam". Given that GOG is heavily promoted for its DRM-free-ness, naturally people who have had bad experiences with Steam/Origin/other DRM are going to come here and vent. And I think that's okay.

The problem comes when people (and I'm going to the extreme here) think that GOG can do no wrong, and when some of those people are unwilling to let criticism appear on the forum. GOG is great, and I actually think Steam is pretty great, too, although I don't frequent it, but both are far from perfect, and if something is bothering a user, he should be able to express it without "fear" of being downvoted.
Well, the physical act of clicking the "-" isn't such a big deal, it's the concept behind it - like one is going to put his or her hands over his ears and go "La la la la can't hear you" to a problem that needs to be addressed.

Now in the case of the 5/10 dealio thread, some bullshit was being thrown around, but I also think some points were made in downvoted threads that needed to be considered, most notably what I'm bringing up here - a double-standard about what can be criticized.

So, in a nutshell, I guess what I'm suggesting is, you don't have to criticize GOG, but don't try to "block out" those who do. Same goes for other digital distributors, and maybe everything else in general. :-P (something like that) Believe it or not, it's tough for me to hear people talk bad about GOG in the various game forums, but these are still complaints that shouldn't be suppressed. Likewise, Steam complaints shouldn't be suppressed on Steam or here.

Personally, I think the fact that the GOGMixes are broken (and still /up/, at least the "+" button) is unprofessional. Maybe support could be better, but I'd like to see some data on how well other digital distributors of similar size help people. I'm wondering if, as the catalogue grows, the catalogue page needs to be redesigned to promote less popular games or bring them to light on that page. And I'm sure there are other things that need to be changed or tweaked, but I have to finish a project.

Hopefully this clicks with some people without offending them.
There are downvoted posts/threads about the promo? I agree wholeheartedly with your point about criticism of GOG. Any valid criticism needs to be able to be expressed so GOG can get even better. Downvoting something that's making a legitimate point isn't cool. Not all criticism is bad or malicious.

Scuttles off to view the shenanigans...
Glad I inspired you to write that. Is this how ignoring the issue is done?

;)

Criticism is always welcome when it's valid. But when it's repetitive and contradictory, it's not productive.

(I wasn't part of the discussion, only commented on it after the downvotes had been flung around like cartons of milk in a cafeteria food fight.)

GOG's community is no less biased than any other major community formed around a central idea. Here people care about DRM-free. At Steam people care about, umm, Steamworks. And so on. You're never going to find somewhere that's 100% unbiased.

But, I think people need to make their point and respect others, too. If you think that the devolution of these arguments is limited to GOG, you're being naive. This is basically how the internet works:

- Post a thought
- Someone disagrees
- Go back and forth a bit
- Derail conversation to other things
- Others jump in
- Everyone slugs it out
- Bitches hug it out and move on

I think GOG is quite receptive to criticism on the forums. They can't respond to everything but they have a good presence.

One assumption I see in your post, and others, is that GOG somehow doesn't care much about certain issues. They care. But not every issue can be solved so readily. Things take time, take manpower, take resources, etc.
Post edited November 20, 2012 by mondo84
Yeah, I think the problem is repetition. Constructive criticism is fine. But after the 50th, 100th, 500th time, particularly when it comes from the same people, it's gets a little old. I think that is the problem people are having with these things more than anything recently... heck, the people complaining about the people complaining is even getting old. I usually like to stay out of this stuff, but that's what I think people are down-voting for, because it's becoming a bit tiresome and trite. Me? I just try to stay out of it...
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mondo84: Glad I inspired you to write that. Is this how ignoring the issue is done?
;)
Ha, you got me on that, well done. I guess my thought on ignoring the issue had to do with the idea of trolling and specific people who annoy you. But maybe I'm wrong on that, too!
Well, that was... entertaining. Like Yyahoo, I just try to stay out of these things. In fact, I almost never read the promo announcement threads simply because I grow weary of the constant complaints about the promos not being good enough. Just thought I'd skim through the thread for the downvoted posts to see if it was some major issue. But looks like just the same old, same old to me. Ah well, back to gaming!
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mondo84: Glad I inspired you to write that. Is this how ignoring the issue is done?
;)
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tfishell: Ha, you got me on that, well done. I guess my thought on ignoring the issue had to do with the idea of trolling and specific people who annoy you. But maybe I'm wrong on that, too!
I don't think anyone is trolling, and nobody annoys me. See my sub heading. ;)

But what is noticeable is that many discussions repeat themselves. I don't like seeing people fight and get angry about things. At some point people just need to agree to disagree.

My only practical recommendation would be to have the "shitting of bull" take place in separate threads from the official promo ones. Let's keep specific discussion about the games in the promo threads and slug it out in special dedicated "Promo fight!" threads.
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Coelocanth: Well, that was... entertaining. Like Yyahoo, I just try to stay out of these things. In fact, I almost never read the promo announcement threads simply because I grow weary of the constant complaints about the promos not being good enough. Just thought I'd skim through the thread for the downvoted posts to see if it was some major issue. But looks like just the same old, same old to me. Ah well, back to gaming!
The griping in this particular promo thread was the opposite, actually. The promo was TOO good, and in fact all of the recent promos have been TOO good, and GOG is evil because they've compromised their stance on... something.
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bevinator: The griping in this particular promo thread was the opposite, actually. The promo was TOO good, and in fact all of the recent promos have been TOO good, and GOG is evil because they've compromised their stance on... something.
True, but it seems to me (and I may be misremembering because it's actually been months since I bothered looking through promo thread convos) that it's generally on the order of people complain about the promo sucking, then it eventually devolves into a bitch fest about how GOG sucks. Fingers are pointed, names are called, and now it seems posts are downvoted. Just vindicates my decision to not bother with the promo threads.
Summed it up great, bevinator and Coelocanth. That's precisely what the issue seems to be in many threads.

Where I disagree with this OP is that he/she seems to think people arguing counterpoints against these claims of GOG being hypocritical are assumed to be GOGbots who view that GOG can do no wrong. In reality they might actually just be providing some rational insight into why the sale isn't predicated on bad intentions.

It goes like this:

"But GOG said these sales devalue games!!!"
"Why is GOG compromising their views?!!"

Then the arguments fall apart.

My only observation was that people arguing these positions seem to generally have more criticism to offer, and one of their frequent criticisms was GOG not matching the quality of sales from other distributors. But when GOG matches the quality of sales from other distributors, then the people who more or less asked for the sales are upset.

I view this as an evolution of GOG's business strategies, not as some devastating compromise of morals. Businesses tend to evolve to keep pace with the marketplace. But again, I see contradiction in previously criticizing GOG's earlier sales philosophy, then later criticizing them for evolving the philosophy.

The logic just don't flow from my vantage point. But I could be wrong.
Post edited November 20, 2012 by mondo84
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mondo84: Where I disagree with this OP is that he/she seems to think people arguing counterpoints against these claims of GOG being hypocritical are assumed to be GOGbots who view that GOG can do no wrong.
I didnt get that impression at all from the OP. To me he was clearly talking about people voting down the posts. not simply arguing counterpoints
Post edited November 20, 2012 by CaptainGyro
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Coelocanth: True, but it seems to me (and I may be misremembering because it's actually been months since I bothered looking through promo thread convos) that it's generally on the order of people complain about the promo sucking, then it eventually devolves into a bitch fest about how GOG sucks. Fingers are pointed, names are called, and now it seems posts are downvoted. Just vindicates my decision to not bother with the promo threads.
That's essentially what happened with this one. The quality of the discussion hasn't changed, only the content.
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tfishell: (Reaction to the 5/10 dealio thread)

Maybe it's not my place to bring this up (after the occasional shitting bull I've left around here and there), but I do feel like there tends to be a bias here, in the sense of "GOG vs. other digital retailers, most notably Steam". Given that GOG is heavily promoted for its DRM-free-ness, naturally people who have had bad experiences with Steam/Origin/other DRM are going to come here and vent. And I think that's okay.

The problem comes when people (and I'm going to the extreme here) think that GOG can do no wrong, and when some of those people are unwilling to let criticism appear on the forum. GOG is great, and I actually think Steam is pretty great, too, although I don't frequent it, but both are far from perfect, and if something is bothering a user, he should be able to express it without "fear" of being downvoted.
Well, the physical act of clicking the "-" isn't such a big deal, it's the concept behind it - like one is going to put his or her hands over his ears and go "La la la la can't hear you" to a problem that needs to be addressed.
I think you acting as a message forum police is worse than anything you've described.
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tfishell: (Reaction to the 5/10 dealio thread)

Maybe it's not my place to bring this up (after the occasional shitting bull I've left around here and there), but I do feel like there tends to be a bias here, in the sense of "GOG vs. other digital retailers, most notably Steam". Given that GOG is heavily promoted for its DRM-free-ness, naturally people who have had bad experiences with Steam/Origin/other DRM are going to come here and vent. And I think that's okay.

The problem comes when people (and I'm going to the extreme here) think that GOG can do no wrong, and when some of those people are unwilling to let criticism appear on the forum. GOG is great, and I actually think Steam is pretty great, too, although I don't frequent it, but both are far from perfect, and if something is bothering a user, he should be able to express it without "fear" of being downvoted.
Well, the physical act of clicking the "-" isn't such a big deal, it's the concept behind it - like one is going to put his or her hands over his ears and go "La la la la can't hear you" to a problem that needs to be addressed.
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Liberty: I think you acting as a message forum police is worse than anything you've described.
Why?
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mondo84: Where I disagree with this OP is that he/she seems to think people arguing counterpoints against these claims of GOG being hypocritical are assumed to be GOGbots who view that GOG can do no wrong.
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CaptainGyro: I didnt get that impression at all from the OP. To me he was clearly talking about people voting down the posts. not simply arguing counterpoints
True, but I don't think the downvotes happen because people think GOG can do no wrong. I think the downvotes happen because of the weekly repetition of the same arguments in each promo thread.

Many other threads have plenty of arguments, GOG-related or not, that usually don't seem to involve downvotes. But if it's happening due to reasons the OP suggests, then a sizable portion of all posts on this forum would also have negative ratings. I think it's more specific and limited than that.