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jamyskis: Aside from the fact that Poland has a broadband penetration rate of less than 20% as against Germany's 78%?
And at least 4 times less revenue compared to EUR countries with few times higher piracy rates (meaning many people downloading huge amounts of data) ?

In Poland, when somebody actually has inet connection above 10mbit, you may be certain it's not used for downloading linux.

But with broadband penetration, comes one thing - people rely on those providers, so they can push people harder. In Poland, ISPs are still fighting hard for customers.

The first broadband ISP that would have bw limitations, would be the first to die in Poland. Even mobile providers notice that, offering more and more GB for less money every year.
Post edited April 23, 2013 by keeveek
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Piranjade: One of the problems is that T-kom refused to invest into a better infrastructure for many, many years now. (there was an interesting article about that in the SPIEGEL this year but it wasn't released online.) So more and more provider are putting in their own copper or even fibre optic wires (and T-kom often tries to stop them from doing that) which makes people switch to these providers which then causes T-kom to make less money,which means they have less money to finally start improving their net...
So at least part of the problem of "too much" net traffic is home-made by not investing in better infrastructure.
That is very true, although part of this is due to its lack of investment in infrastructure in rural areas. Now it and many of its competitors are furiously playing catch-up outside of urban centres at the expense of improving urban broadband infrastructure.
What might be the reasoning behind bandwidth limitation is technology. ISPs are selling 100mbit connections knowing they will not be able to provide such speed for millions of customers simultaneusly.

So they still sell higher and higher speed, limiting the bandwidth to keep up.
Because 100mbit looks nice on ads, and they may keep download limits in fine print in their ToS.
Post edited April 23, 2013 by keeveek
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jamyskis: Aside from the fact that Poland has a broadband penetration rate of less than 20% as against Germany's 78%?
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keeveek: And at least 4 times less revenue compared to EUR countries with few times higher piracy rates (meaning many people downloading huge amounts of data) ?

In Poland, when somebody actually has inet connection above 10mbit, you may be certain it's not used for downloading linux.

But with broadband penetration, comes one thing - people rely on those providers, so they can push people harder. In Poland, ISPs are still fighting hard for customers.

The first broadband ISP that would have bw limitations, would be the first to die in Poland.
Games, funnily enough, are a minority bandwidth consumer. The big offender in this regard is VOD - Netflix and YouTube in particular. Taking the US as an example: Netflix accounts for a third of all US annual internet traffic - that's around 40,000 petabytes, give or take a few thousand. Steam's global traffic, by comparison, is a measly 780 petabytes, and I would say less than half of that is attributable to the US.
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keeveek: I doubt all ISPs are going to follow on that. If only one big player is left with unlimited bandwidth, it would collect all the customers.
Only all the heavy users, that is.

I can't blame the ISPs, after all charging by usage (or limiting "over-usage") just makes sense, and is fair to the rest of the users. I think similar tendencies are in other ISPs around the world as well, as the data transfer rates just keep getting higher and higher due to both more and more mobile data usage, people downloading xx gigabyte games over and over again, and watching Netflix etc. online.

Most probably this is something that will mostly be applied to cheaper net connections, more expensive connections will probably still provide uncapped data transfers. You just have to pay more for them.

It is also probable that many big online service providers (Netflix, Steam, I hope GOG too, etc.) will have mutual agreements with the ISP(s) so that if you are downloading stuff from those services, they are not counted towards the data transfer caps. Those services probably pay something for the ISPs for getting that privilege.

Anyway, vote with your wallet, if you can.
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keeveek: So they still sell higher and higher speed, limiting the bandwidth to keep up.
Because 100mbit looks nice on ads, and they may keep download limits in fine print in their ToS.
That's actually very possible. There is a lot of competitive pressure on the markets driving prices down, and this is hindering investment. Telekom often advertises incredible sounding technical services, but they often turn out to be useless.
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jamyskis: Games, funnily enough, are a minority bandwidth consumer. The big offender in this regard is VOD - Netflix and YouTube in particular. Taking the US as an example: Netflix accounts for a third of all US annual internet traffic - that's around 40,000 petabytes, give or take a few thousand. Steam's global traffic, by comparison, is a measly 780 petabytes, and I would say less than half of that is attributable to the US.
Piracy also means movies. People are downloading BR rips more and more often. Single episode of fabourite tv series? 2 gigabytes.
Movie? 30 gigs.

And I thought platforms like Netflix pay for their own bandwidth and their servers?

But I agree with you, there is a global tendency to limit traffic. Which is worrying, because technology provides better and better quality of film and television, but the other side of the bargain seems trying to slow this down.
And in moments like this, I'm glad I'm in '3rd europe' country, where bandwidth limits are a distant future.
Post edited April 23, 2013 by keeveek
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timppu: It is also probable that many big online service providers (Netflix, Steam, I hope GOG too, etc.) will have mutual agreements with the ISP(s) so that if you are downloading stuff from those services, they are not counted towards the data transfer caps. Those services probably pay something for the ISPs for getting that privilege.
Possible and probable, but at the end of the day, we consumers are going to end up paying for it regardless. Steam and Netflix may enter into agreements with ISPs, but that agreement will involve the content providers paying money to the ISPs. There's no way around that.

And this increased expenditure will manifest itself in higher prices for games and videos.

So it's more a matter of who do you want to pay for the right to download your content - the ISP or content provider?
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keeveek: Piracy also means movies. People are downloading BR rips more and more often. Single episode of fabourite tv series? 2 gigabytes.
Movie? 30 gigs.
Not really, your average Shark Tooth Clive will tend to grab a 45 minutes episode of a series about 350MB big, movie about 1GB
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Fenixp: Not really, your average Shark Tooth Clive will tend to grab a 45 minutes episode of a series about 350MB big, movie about 1GB
Only people with net speed below 10mbit... The difference in quality is easily visible for everyone. And with better access to LED HD TV's with usb ports?

A little confession to make I have - when I downloader blu ray rips of Spartacus and saw them on my parents's 40 inch LED TV - I cried ;-(

(i pay for HBO where it's shown in Poland too, but I don't have enough patience to wait until they show final season)

There is that ancient saying - once you go HD, you never go back :P
Post edited April 23, 2013 by keeveek
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keeveek: Piracy also means movies. People are downloading BR rips more and more often. Single episode of fabourite tv series? 2 gigabytes.
Movie? 30 gigs.
But if you're talking about Poland, it still doesn't change the fact that there are too few people with high-speed broadband connections in Poland for the network loads to be a problem. Whether they download through BitTorrent, EMule, Rapidshare, Steam, YouTube or whatever the VOD service of choice is there, it's still traffic. And as the average download speed is so low, it makes less of a difference.

It's not how much it transfers in total, but how much it transfers in a short space of time. One person downloading a 30GB film at 5MB/sec on a 50mbit line is more of a direct burden than someone downloading a 60GB film at 1MB/sec on a 1mbit line.

And that's why it's not an immediate concern for Poland right now.
If I was as fast as 384 I'd kiss my service provider full on the lips, no shit. XD That would be beyond fast for me.
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timppu: It is also probable that many big online service providers (Netflix, Steam, I hope GOG too, etc.) will have mutual agreements with the ISP(s) so that if you are downloading stuff from those services, they are not counted towards the data transfer caps. Those services probably pay something for the ISPs for getting that privilege.
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jamyskis: Possible and probable, but at the end of the day, we consumers are going to end up paying for it regardless.
That's true of course, someone has to pay, and it probably goes down mostly to the end-users.

I am unsure if Netflix already has such free-pass agreements, but at least Netflix here says that in order to get their best 1080p quality video, your ISP must have an ongoing agreement with Netflix (I forget the name of that agreement). Netflix asks you to check if your ISP has such an agreement with them. Mine does.

So if there is no such agreement, my understanding is that you will not get 1080p Netflix videos, but less quality. No matter what kind of monster bandwidth you have.

So there are already now at least some kind

And if I recall right, I do remember someone in this forum too mentioning that his capped connection is unaffected by e.g. Steam downloads, ie. Steam and some other services get a free pass from the ISP. Not sure if there is an actual agreement between the services and the ISP, or whether the ISP has just proactively decided to give some services a free pass.
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tinyE: If I was as fast as 384 I'd kiss my service provider full on the lips, no shit. XD That would be beyond fast for me.
how do you download your games, bro? :D
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DProject: First the ridiculous censorship and banned video games, then this?
I feel sorry for you guys.
More info please?