Posted October 04, 2008
high rated
Please add your votes to our dedicated wishlist page (if you haven't aready :) . Thanks!
Post edited February 23, 2012 by Destro
Posted September 09, 2008
You have to be a clever consumer though, as some of the games mentioned are now freeware, or there is no way to know now who owns the copyright and therefore are considered 'legal abandonware'.
The problem with who has the legal copyright for these old DOS games would make it impossible for G.O.G. to be even able to approach anyone to get permission to sell.
Also, to the person who said they could host free games, well, there are plenty of other sites that do that,, and this is a business. it is no different than Steam, and no one would expect steam to carry free games. In fact, Steam doesn't really do much to any games they sell to make them compatible in the way G.O.G. does. I know of people that bought retro games from Steam and found they couldn't patch them or add mods, etc.
So when listing games you;d like to see,. remember they need to be at least of the win95/98 era (1996+), so the request for the X-Com games are no go (Steam has them), System Shock 1 and 2 is unlikely because the first one is DOS and the second does not have an obvious copyright owner for GOG to approach.
Same goes for the Ultima series and the LucasArts titles, etc. All DOS games.
I would suggest for DOS games you buy via ebay and download DOSBox with one of the user friendly front ends like the D.O.G. front end and get them working on your XP/Vista machine that way. Once you get the handle on DOSBox/D.O.G running these DOS games is quite easy.
As to games like Jagged Alliance (the first one) and the later Gabriel Knight games and the Baldur's Gate/NOX/Icewind Dale/Neverwinter Nights RPG's and other games of that era and later I say 'bring them on....!!!'
Wasn't Descent 1 a DOS game? I'm not completely sure, but that would give us hope GOG can also offer us DOS games ;)
Also, while I see your point, I think it is important that we also suggest those titles. The whole point of this or similar threads is that the folks at GOG know what games their users want, so they can put effort into getting them into their catalogue. Even if DOS are harder to offer or if the copyright situation is complicated - if they see that there's a high demand for certain games, this would indicate to the team that it might be worth the trouble to bother with copyright situations or, if necessary, do a deal with the DOSbox team or whatever.
Also, the concept behind GOG is to make the games compatible with XP and Vista. I'm not exactly sure if there's much difference between old Windows games that don't run on modern systems and old DOS games that don't run on modern systems. They have to work on the game either way, and since compatibility is one of their main advertising arguments, I wouldn't be surprised if they had a way to handle DOS games without using external software.
I know a lot of games are available as abandonware and that it isn't too hard to get these games to run with DOSbox. I just recently started playing Albion again. Still, it would be nice to have a version of the game that doesn't require additional software to run, simply because it would be far more comfortable.
Posted September 09, 2008
low rated
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Wasn't Descent 1 a DOS game? I'm not completely sure, but that would give us hope GOG can also offer us DOS games ;)
Also, while I see your point, I think it is important that we also suggest those titles. The whole point of this or similar threads is that the folks at GOG know what games their users want, so they can put effort into getting them into their catalogue. Even if DOS are harder to offer or if the copyright situation is complicated - if they see that there's a high demand for certain games, this would indicate to the team that it might be worth the trouble to bother with copyright situations or, if necessary, do a deal with the DOSbox team or whatever.
Also, the concept behind GOG is to make the games compatible with XP and Vista. I'm not exactly sure if there's much difference between old Windows games that don't run on modern systems and old DOS games that don't run on modern systems. They have to work on the game either way, and since compatibility is one of their main advertising arguments, I wouldn't be surprised if they had a way to handle DOS games without using external software.
I know a lot of games are available as abandonware and that it isn't too hard to get these games to run with DOSbox. I just recently started playing Albion again. Still, it would be nice to have a version of the game that doesn't require additional software to run, simply because it would be far more comfortable.
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You'll find that all the games available at the moment had a win95 version at least, so while I believe Descent 1 was DOS it also came with a win95 version. It came out in 1996, one year after Win95 came out in 1995 (which is why it was called Win95!). Anything released between 1995 and 1997 may have come with a DOS and Win95 version. Later versions of X-Com UFO had a Wn95 version made available. CD software came out at about the same time as Win95, so having a DOS version and Windows version on the CD was not a problem.
Getting DOS Games running in XP or Vista is a whole more complicated issue for getting them working than with win95/98 games (after all XP has win95/98 emulation available with a right click - but no real DOS. hence the need for an emulator like DOSBox.) There is a cost factor involved. G.O.G. are not going to spend 10's of 1,000's on making a DOS game work 100% in XP and Vista when it was unlikely to get that investment back in income.
The biggest issue though is copyright. G.O.G. has to be able to buy the rights so they can have a contract that allows the to sell these titles. For many DOS games mentioned here, that are 15+ years old, it would be nigh impossible to find out who has the copyright to be able to sign a deal with.
Add these two problems of XP/Vista compatibility and finding a copyright holder and it is easy to see how it would not be profitable to even think of going down that road for G.O.G. they are in this to make a profit after all!
I would say it could be frustrating for G.O.G, not helpful, to see how many people want a game that G.O.G. could never sell for the above reasons.
The only way I see some DOS games being made available is if G.O.G. programmers can write a propriety utility, similar to DOSBox that they could run DOS games in 'invisibly', meaning you would install and run them just like the win95/98 games G.O.G. has available for download now. If it was code they owned it would be legally safer than using a freeware utility like DOSBox. But in any event, the much larger problem is finding a copyright holder to sign a contact with that is the biggest hurdle. After all, the reason you have 100's of games on abandonware sites is that no one really knows who owns the copyright so the games can be made available legally. But while this works for abandonware sites that make the games available for free, it's a whole other ball-game, legally, to charge for these titles if you don;t have a contract. You can be put out of business very quickly taking chances in those areas.
Wasn't Descent 1 a DOS game? I'm not completely sure, but that would give us hope GOG can also offer us DOS games ;)
Also, while I see your point, I think it is important that we also suggest those titles. The whole point of this or similar threads is that the folks at GOG know what games their users want, so they can put effort into getting them into their catalogue. Even if DOS are harder to offer or if the copyright situation is complicated - if they see that there's a high demand for certain games, this would indicate to the team that it might be worth the trouble to bother with copyright situations or, if necessary, do a deal with the DOSbox team or whatever.
Also, the concept behind GOG is to make the games compatible with XP and Vista. I'm not exactly sure if there's much difference between old Windows games that don't run on modern systems and old DOS games that don't run on modern systems. They have to work on the game either way, and since compatibility is one of their main advertising arguments, I wouldn't be surprised if they had a way to handle DOS games without using external software.
I know a lot of games are available as abandonware and that it isn't too hard to get these games to run with DOSbox. I just recently started playing Albion again. Still, it would be nice to have a version of the game that doesn't require additional software to run, simply because it would be far more comfortable.
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You'll find that all the games available at the moment had a win95 version at least, so while I believe Descent 1 was DOS it also came with a win95 version. It came out in 1996, one year after Win95 came out in 1995 (which is why it was called Win95!). Anything released between 1995 and 1997 may have come with a DOS and Win95 version. Later versions of X-Com UFO had a Wn95 version made available. CD software came out at about the same time as Win95, so having a DOS version and Windows version on the CD was not a problem.
Getting DOS Games running in XP or Vista is a whole more complicated issue for getting them working than with win95/98 games (after all XP has win95/98 emulation available with a right click - but no real DOS. hence the need for an emulator like DOSBox.) There is a cost factor involved. G.O.G. are not going to spend 10's of 1,000's on making a DOS game work 100% in XP and Vista when it was unlikely to get that investment back in income.
The biggest issue though is copyright. G.O.G. has to be able to buy the rights so they can have a contract that allows the to sell these titles. For many DOS games mentioned here, that are 15+ years old, it would be nigh impossible to find out who has the copyright to be able to sign a deal with.
Add these two problems of XP/Vista compatibility and finding a copyright holder and it is easy to see how it would not be profitable to even think of going down that road for G.O.G. they are in this to make a profit after all!
I would say it could be frustrating for G.O.G, not helpful, to see how many people want a game that G.O.G. could never sell for the above reasons.
The only way I see some DOS games being made available is if G.O.G. programmers can write a propriety utility, similar to DOSBox that they could run DOS games in 'invisibly', meaning you would install and run them just like the win95/98 games G.O.G. has available for download now. If it was code they owned it would be legally safer than using a freeware utility like DOSBox. But in any event, the much larger problem is finding a copyright holder to sign a contact with that is the biggest hurdle. After all, the reason you have 100's of games on abandonware sites is that no one really knows who owns the copyright so the games can be made available legally. But while this works for abandonware sites that make the games available for free, it's a whole other ball-game, legally, to charge for these titles if you don;t have a contract. You can be put out of business very quickly taking chances in those areas.
Posted September 09, 2008
low rated
Yes, they did have DOS versions, but they also came with win95 versions. The games were released in 1996+ one year after win95 came out. On various sites and in various places the DOS version is available, but the games did come with Win95 versions.
Posted September 09, 2008
low rated
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Just because you had one bad purchase with ebay, doesn't mean everybody has. I have bought plenty of retro PC games on ebay with no problem at all. In 5 years of shopping with ebay generally I have had just three problems and only lost my money once.
I am not saying don't list the games, I am saying the likelihood of G.O.G. being able to sign them up and then release them are practically zero. So feel free to take the time to list them, but not so that G.O.G. can consider releasing them, because they won't be able to.
Take System Shock one. Firstly it's DOS, and does not run natively in XP or Vista without a utility like DOSBox, which is freeware and cannot be sold, so would need an emulator written for it, then who would G.O.G. go to to sign a contract? Does EA own the rights, or does Looking Glass? But then Looking Glass in 1993 didn't release the game, they were the developer, and the team in 1993 was not the same Looking Glass of, say, the Thief series - and of course Looking Glass doesn't exist any more. Same with Microprose DOS titles. Microprose was bought by Atari that was then bought by Infogrammes. No one knows if Atari did something with Microprose before selling to Infogrammes, and no one knows if Infogrammes did anything with the Microsoft label. Who the hell you would contact and who would have the power to say 'yes, you can license them to release through G.O.G.' is anyone's guess! And you have to have that DOS emulation code written before you even pick up the phone so you know you can run these DOS games in XP and Vista under G.O.G.'s guarantee.
There are plenty of sites you can go to to list your favourite PC retro games. You can list them here to your hearts content, but in many cases it is almost impossible to see how G.O.G could release these older DOS tiles and sell them at a profit.
Just leave us professionals to dream up insanely long lists of the best games of yesteryear released for the PC. Thanks.
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Just because you had one bad purchase with ebay, doesn't mean everybody has. I have bought plenty of retro PC games on ebay with no problem at all. In 5 years of shopping with ebay generally I have had just three problems and only lost my money once.
I am not saying don't list the games, I am saying the likelihood of G.O.G. being able to sign them up and then release them are practically zero. So feel free to take the time to list them, but not so that G.O.G. can consider releasing them, because they won't be able to.
Take System Shock one. Firstly it's DOS, and does not run natively in XP or Vista without a utility like DOSBox, which is freeware and cannot be sold, so would need an emulator written for it, then who would G.O.G. go to to sign a contract? Does EA own the rights, or does Looking Glass? But then Looking Glass in 1993 didn't release the game, they were the developer, and the team in 1993 was not the same Looking Glass of, say, the Thief series - and of course Looking Glass doesn't exist any more. Same with Microprose DOS titles. Microprose was bought by Atari that was then bought by Infogrammes. No one knows if Atari did something with Microprose before selling to Infogrammes, and no one knows if Infogrammes did anything with the Microsoft label. Who the hell you would contact and who would have the power to say 'yes, you can license them to release through G.O.G.' is anyone's guess! And you have to have that DOS emulation code written before you even pick up the phone so you know you can run these DOS games in XP and Vista under G.O.G.'s guarantee.
There are plenty of sites you can go to to list your favourite PC retro games. You can list them here to your hearts content, but in many cases it is almost impossible to see how G.O.G could release these older DOS tiles and sell them at a profit.
Post edited September 09, 2008 by UK_John
Posted September 09, 2008
Just remembered something: We definitely NEED Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen here at GOG. I think it already was Win95, so that should be possible (at least as far as the DOS/Win discussion goes). Maybe more from the series, but this first one was always my favourite.
Also, I have fond memories of a tank game called "Uprising", which I'd like to see.
Also, I have fond memories of a tank game called "Uprising", which I'd like to see.
Posted September 09, 2008
high rated
I'm a huge fan of old PC games and I'm sure that most of these have been mentioned, but here we go...
3DO
Army Men series
Heroes of Might and Magic series
Might and Magic series (specifically #6)
Requiem: Avenging Angel
Acclaim
Re-volt
Shadow Man
Turok series
Activision
Nightmare Creatures
SiN
Apogee
Duke Nukem 3D + its bazillion expansions
Rise of the Triad
Bungie
Myth 1 and 2
Capcom
Mega Man 3 (I actually have a sealed copy and it's on floppy disks..but I don't have a drive anymore!)
Codemasters
Blade of Darkness
Crystal Dynamics
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain
EA
Clive Barker's Undying
Crusader series
Future Cop: LAPD
System Shock series
Eidos
Anachronox
Commandos series
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
Revenant
Thief series
Gathering of Developers
Heavy Metal F.A.K.K. 2
Nocturne
Oni
GT Interactive
Blood series (please!!)
Chasm: The Rift
Mageslayer
Oddworld series
Shadow Warrior
The Wheel of Time
id Software
Hexen series
Interplay
Baldur's Gate series
Carmageddon series
Earthworm Jim 1 and 2
Heart of Darkness
Icewind Dale
Planescape: Torment
Lucas Arts
Grim Fandango
Jedi Knight
Maniac Mansion series
Monkey Island series
Outlaws
Microprose
Dark Earth
Majesty
Ultim@te Race Pro
Microsoft
Gex
Impossible Creatures
Midway
Gex: Enter the Gecko
NFL Blitz
Monolith Productions
Odium
Playmates Interactive
PowerSlave
Psygnosis
Drakan: Order of the Flame
Sierra
3D Ultra RC Racers
Homeworld
Leisure Suit Larry series
No One Lives Forever series
Shivers series
THQ
Red Faction series
Ubi Soft
Battle Realms
S.C.A.R.S.
Speed Busters
3DO
Army Men series
Heroes of Might and Magic series
Might and Magic series (specifically #6)
Requiem: Avenging Angel
Acclaim
Re-volt
Shadow Man
Turok series
Activision
Nightmare Creatures
SiN
Apogee
Duke Nukem 3D + its bazillion expansions
Rise of the Triad
Bungie
Myth 1 and 2
Capcom
Mega Man 3 (I actually have a sealed copy and it's on floppy disks..but I don't have a drive anymore!)
Codemasters
Blade of Darkness
Crystal Dynamics
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain
EA
Clive Barker's Undying
Crusader series
Future Cop: LAPD
System Shock series
Eidos
Anachronox
Commandos series
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
Revenant
Thief series
Gathering of Developers
Heavy Metal F.A.K.K. 2
Nocturne
Oni
GT Interactive
Blood series (please!!)
Chasm: The Rift
Mageslayer
Oddworld series
Shadow Warrior
The Wheel of Time
id Software
Hexen series
Interplay
Baldur's Gate series
Carmageddon series
Earthworm Jim 1 and 2
Heart of Darkness
Icewind Dale
Planescape: Torment
Lucas Arts
Grim Fandango
Jedi Knight
Maniac Mansion series
Monkey Island series
Outlaws
Microprose
Dark Earth
Majesty
Ultim@te Race Pro
Microsoft
Gex
Impossible Creatures
Midway
Gex: Enter the Gecko
NFL Blitz
Monolith Productions
Odium
Playmates Interactive
PowerSlave
Psygnosis
Drakan: Order of the Flame
Sierra
3D Ultra RC Racers
Homeworld
Leisure Suit Larry series
No One Lives Forever series
Shivers series
THQ
Red Faction series
Ubi Soft
Battle Realms
S.C.A.R.S.
Speed Busters
Posted September 10, 2008
Not sure if anyone's mentioned it before, but I nominate Star Wars: Tie Fighter. Awesome game, just a pain to run it under DOSBOX; not to mention the entire stack overflow bug.
Games I want that I can think of off the top of my head:
Star Wars: Tie Fighter
Dark Forces
System Shock 1 & 2
Total Annihilation
Sorry if anyone's already posted these; I only read the first page of the thread.
Games I want that I can think of off the top of my head:
Star Wars: Tie Fighter
Dark Forces
System Shock 1 & 2
Total Annihilation
Sorry if anyone's already posted these; I only read the first page of the thread.
Posted September 10, 2008
eh? DOSbox or not, i don't care as long as the game runs perfectly and correctly, which is the purpose of GOG. I am completely ready to pay 5-10 bucks for perfect (which means no shamahic dances around the PC to get the game working) installation and flawless gameplay.
adding to wishlist: 7th guest, 11th hour, published by virgin games, developed by trilobyte.
remember these quests? would be nice to see them GOGgified.
adding to wishlist: 7th guest, 11th hour, published by virgin games, developed by trilobyte.
remember these quests? would be nice to see them GOGgified.
Post edited September 10, 2008 by kannabie
Posted September 10, 2008
Seeing as a lot of classic games have been covered, I'd love to see..
Age of Empires and expansion (Microsoft)
Age of Empires II and expansion (Microsoft)
Combat Flight Simulator 1/2/3 (Microsoft)
Jetfighter series (Microprose)
Battlefield 1942 and expansions (EA)
Worms 2D series (Microprose)
Army Men series (3D0)
Comanche series (NovaLogic)
MechCommander series (Microsoft)
MechWarrior series (Microprose + Microsoft)
Total War series (Activision)
Myst series (Broderbund + Ubisoft)
Hitman series (Eidos)
Alien vs. Predator series (Sierra)
Freedom Fighters (EA)
Roller Coaster Tycoon series (Hasbro)
Beyond Good and Evil (Ubisoft)
Sniper Elite (Namco)
Tron 2.0 (Buena Vista)
A bunch of the legacy Sim games like...
SimTower (Maxis)
SimTown (Maxis)
Widget Workshop (Maxis)
SimPark (Maxis)
SimCity 2000: Network Edition (Maxis)
SimGolf (Firaxis)
Sid Meier games like...
Alpha Centauri (Firaxis)
Gettysburg and Antietam (Firaxis / EA)
Pirates! (Atari)
And I'd love to see a bunch of the older sports games...
NHL 2001 (seriously, best hockey game made yet) (EA)
Madden 2003 (EA)
Pro Evolution Soccer series (Konami)
I tried to figure out what games were from at least 5 years back as a general age guideline, but some games that didn't get good publishing or marketing support (like Sniper Elite) could definitely be selling points.
Age of Empires and expansion (Microsoft)
Age of Empires II and expansion (Microsoft)
Combat Flight Simulator 1/2/3 (Microsoft)
Jetfighter series (Microprose)
Battlefield 1942 and expansions (EA)
Worms 2D series (Microprose)
Army Men series (3D0)
Comanche series (NovaLogic)
MechCommander series (Microsoft)
MechWarrior series (Microprose + Microsoft)
Total War series (Activision)
Myst series (Broderbund + Ubisoft)
Hitman series (Eidos)
Alien vs. Predator series (Sierra)
Freedom Fighters (EA)
Roller Coaster Tycoon series (Hasbro)
Beyond Good and Evil (Ubisoft)
Sniper Elite (Namco)
Tron 2.0 (Buena Vista)
A bunch of the legacy Sim games like...
SimTower (Maxis)
SimTown (Maxis)
Widget Workshop (Maxis)
SimPark (Maxis)
SimCity 2000: Network Edition (Maxis)
SimGolf (Firaxis)
Sid Meier games like...
Alpha Centauri (Firaxis)
Gettysburg and Antietam (Firaxis / EA)
Pirates! (Atari)
And I'd love to see a bunch of the older sports games...
NHL 2001 (seriously, best hockey game made yet) (EA)
Madden 2003 (EA)
Pro Evolution Soccer series (Konami)
I tried to figure out what games were from at least 5 years back as a general age guideline, but some games that didn't get good publishing or marketing support (like Sniper Elite) could definitely be selling points.
Posted September 10, 2008
When it comes to the really old ones:
Space Hulk series
Might and Magic series
Cannon Fodder series
War Wind (I and II)
Dark Colony
Seven Kingdoms (I and II)
Leisure Suite Larry series :)
Space Hulk series
Might and Magic series
Cannon Fodder series
War Wind (I and II)
Dark Colony
Seven Kingdoms (I and II)
Leisure Suite Larry series :)
Post edited September 10, 2008 by newplayer