It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
ZFR: [...] Yeah. Of all the mafia games I played on GOG, this one is best by far.
avatar
HypersomniacLive: I thought this was your first one; which other mafia games have you played on GOG?
No, it is my first one. That was a joke.
avatar
HypersomniacLive: I thought this was your first one; which other mafia games have you played on GOG?
avatar
ZFR: No, it is my first one. That was a joke.
Perhaps you've played this one:

https://www.gog.com/game/mafia
avatar
Bookwyrm627: [...] I'm suspicious of some of Dedo's line of questioning. [...]
Welcome to my world.

If I asked you to point out some of dedoporno's questions, would you do it, or would I get the same reply you gave me when I asked you to clarify your question-comment on ZFR?



avatar
Hunter65536: [...] if flub lives I am not entirely convinced it can bind scum to act in a way. [...] ~snip for bervity~ [...]
Is conversion scum's only choice?



avatar
mchack: [...] his being scum or not, doesn't change anything in that context. But sure, seems he is in the "would lynch townie, if possible" category... [...]
Pretty sure this is not his position, at least not his publicly known one.


avatar
mchack: [...] He lists players as if they are backing his thoughts, but I'm the only one averse to them. [...]
Haven't all the players he listed said, in one way or another, that they can get behind his thought process?


avatar
mchack: [...] true. don't know that I have though. their backing doesn't go so far as to vote accordingly. [...]
Yet. It may change if needed. And leaving this bit out, is taking things out of context. So you have, and you know that you have, you just can't admit it now, as that would mean not only that your counterargument doesn't stand, but a number of the arguments you've made in support of your scum-read of adaliabooks don't either.


avatar
mchack: [...] nope, the recruiter dies. see the setup. [...]
Doesn't matter which scum dies, it's still "a scum more than the Day before" situation, isn't it?


avatar
mchack: [...] I know. it's only HSL said "Except that it's going to be one dead scum that didn't exist the Day before." which is simply not true. so I pointed it out. [...]
Are you in need of an abacus?


avatar
mchack: [...] to my knowledge no-one did play against his current goal in #51. Do you mean bookwyrm or flubs? they're in this game too, we should ask them.
@flubs, @bookwyrm: Did either of you play against your own win condition last game, in the hopes of acquiring other win conditions someday and to not hurt those? [...]
You're cute when you pretend not to understand what I mean. I also love how you completely ignored the first part of my comment.


avatar
mchack: [...] true. though there was not much to read from bookwyrm, yet was there? [...]
Well, it's not me trying to pass that as a genuine scum-read, is it?


avatar
mchack: [...] and the truth of it is still, that it's simply false to state, I'd only OMGUSed adalia and dedo all game, wouldn't you say? [...]
What do you think that I think?


avatar
mchack: [...] But mostly. Remember: even, when we have a conversion tonight, you can in no way be sure it was flubs. Could just as well be you getting converted. We'll have to reassert everyone. flubs included, but not only flubs. [...]
That's not what I meant. Have I already said how cute you are when you pretend not to get what I mean?


avatar
mchack: [...] what? [...]
Never mind. I misread something.


avatar
mchack: [...] I was talking to him. I feel it brings the point across better. As in: I know something, You know something, other people will know something, too. If he thinks about it and knows something, he'll concede other people probably know something, too.
simply rethoric.... [...]
Except that you referred to only a specific subset of the "other people", a subset you consider dedoporno to be part of.


avatar
mchack: [...] but do you really, seriously suggest scums only option is flubs? They won't consider others? [...]
I'm sure they will, but that's quite besides the point of this specific questioning you.


avatar
mchack: [...] remember you never know what happens at night, you might want to go on record, before night hits, because no one knows who'll wake up again tomorrow... [...]
I've never been directly warned before. I guess thanks are in order.



avatar
adaliabooks: [...] So just in case it wasn't clear there are two people I am willing to vote today flub or mchack. [...]
I can get behind this.


avatar
Krypsyn: [...] Vote: trentonlf [...]
I can also get behind this.


There, now I'm on record.


avatar
mchack: [...] yes the first is better, but if you want hypothetical scenarios: if the two nk are masons but the one nk and one conversion is two vanillas, then the second option is better. [...]
Here you go again taking things out of context to make your counterargument. Did Bookwyrm627 ask for hypotheticals in general or did he ask about the specific two scenarios I presented? And yes, I read his post #545, this is my take.


avatar
mchack: [...] But does that mean you simply don't think, it helps finding converted players to pin them on their scumreads from the day before? What is your suggestion on finding the converted players, if any, tomorrow? ...lynch flub? [...]
I don't quite follow, if you're so certain that adaliabooks is scum, as you've made clear in multiple posts, what value does his answer to this line of questioning hold for you?
I will not double post again!

avatar
mchack: his being scum or not, doesn't change anything in that context. But sure, seems he is in the "would lynch townie, if possible" category...
avatar
dedoporno: I'd ask you to change that to "lynch a specific exposed convertible Vanilla who'll fog up every additional day he remains, rather than any townie" but I know how much you like presenting things from alternative angles so I won't waste either of our times.
lol. I like it. But I won't edit it in, because then I'd be dead.
So... How exactly is tomorrow more foggy with than without flubs? I still don't understand that theory. If we let flubs live there might be 6 scum out there tomorrow if we kill flubs there might be 6 scum out there tomorrow. In both cases it might just as well be 4 or 3 or 2 also. I don't see any clear as light day coming tomorrow just because flub isn't there. Please explain.

----

avatar
mchack: You reading that adalia? not cool suggesting that flubs does it now or will tomorrow.
avatar
adaliabooks: Let me point you to this post:

avatar
flubbucket: I want to have your baby.
avatar
adaliabooks: Now tell me, does that not read to you like flub agreeing that he cannot or will not help town?

Or maybe you just think flub finds me very attractive and wants to pursue the biological impossibility of us having children together?

Now, from flub's own mouth he is playing against town. And you think he should not be lynched at any cost today.

And somehow come to the conclusion that makes you town?
Explain that to me please.
Use small words.
He's flubs. *shrug* probably was drunk there :P

He just liked you pushing the train! It is his weird town play to have that train (he thinks it's town at least). and you helped him in that train getting traction. But when it came to L-1 he wouldn't pull the trigger (even he doesn't want to lynch flubs) and also krypsyn asked him not to (he also doesn't want to really lynch flubs - or at least he wanted to see who hammered. and didn't want flubs to do it).

So like I said I don't like flubs play, but I happen to think he is town, so I will not lynch him.
You quoting some weird joke from him, doesn't make me think otherwise. he has a lot of weird quotes like:

avatar
dedoporno: I agree with but so far I only looked at what things will be like in the future. I didn't consider he will be forcing the lynch by pre-emptively playing ahead for the conversion.
avatar
flubbucket: Horrible.

"Tomorrow" votes don't count.......yet.
which could be interpreted as him finding the Idea of "playing ahead for the conversion" as horrible.

or

avatar
flubbucket: It's obvious lynching scum is better.

Allowing me to live into Day Two is pointless. Your response is not town.
And yes it's in there again, that he's working on his own demise, which I find not good, but with his train he found someone, he finds scummy enough to vote (and others too) so, while I do not find the choice of player very good, I do like that he and most everyone else is voting on a player that they think is scum.

You aren't.

P.S. and I appreciate he found said player by pushing his weird train and then voting for someone on it, so that's about that for the "everyone not voting him being scum" thing. He looked for scum voting him. and why and so on. He is working to win this game for town. (in his own weird way)
avatar
Sage103082: You seem very sure what scum would do is down to almost being lynched.
Well I do find you scummy as hell, your logic on making sure the mason go to tomorrow is spot on.

I just really dont feel flub is scum. Why would we not try to lynch scum today and just give in to lynching town? And the comment on getting rid of vanillas is eye brow raising and how are you do sure that scum would take out a vanilla townie over night?

None because the masons should be smart enough not to claim at all even if down to the lynch. Do not give scum anything at all is the smartest move. IMO
avatar
adaliabooks: I'm not sure what that first sentence is supposed to mean...

Neither do I. But he will be tomorrow.
I'm not sure, but that's what we want to ensure (or other scum preferably, but I've already outlined why that probably isn't likely N1).
Once it becomes clear who is who (and it's only a matter of time really) then vanilla townies become a liability as they are possible to convert. So ideally we want scum to shoot them (which they will want to avoid, and they will want to avoid lynching them to keep a good pool of possible converts) instead of masons.

Wait.
You are suggesting a mason at L-1 shouldn't claim and should just get lynched?
Why?
If lynching a claimed vanilla is doing scums job for them why is it better to let masons die unclaimed instead of leaving scum to shoot them at night?
I'm surprised no one else has questioned this logic...
I missed this completely and was pointed to it by hyper so I will answer. Why should a mason claim and run the risk of saying anything that could hurt town instead of just staying quiet and when the flip happens right after the lynch everyone would learn at the same time. No possibility of slips.

Someone claiming can cause confusion. Someone not claiming is not adding to the confusion.
avatar
mchack: I knew it. Going against your win condition is breaking the game. Thank you for being earnest.
You have hit upon a big issue with cult games, or any game featuring a change in alignment. Normally "win the game" coincides with "meet your current faction's win condition". In cult games, you might be playing to (personally) win by not actually playing toward your current faction's win condition.

Is it breaking the game? Eh. It does mean that playing to win might not mean playing toward your current win condition, which changes the game.

avatar
mchack: Flubs also said so, btw. ( kinda )
Oh, you sweet, summer child. I am going to murder you with technicalities one day.

avatar
mchack: You reading that adalia? not cool suggesting that flubs does it now or will tomorrow.
*shrug* Adalia is saying that Flub might be playing toward a personal victory. I would find it difficult to fault someone for playing in such a way, since the stated objective of the game is "to win". Please note that I'm not saying Flub is or is not playing for a cult win. If Flub is converted, then he SHOULD be playing toward his new team's win condition from conversion forward, naturally.

Thankfully, we also play to have fun instead of trying to be really hardcore. This might also be why cult games are accepted here.

avatar
mchack: yep. so which will faster deplete by lynch alone (and should be our target for lynch when we want to fight conversions) original scum or vanilla?
That doesn't matter, since we don't have lynches in a vacuum.

avatar
mchack: true, only indiscriminate slaughter of vanillas (thereby also helping to reveal the masons in the long run, btw) See here for instance:
Indiscriminate slaughter for a purpose. "What good are expendable troops if you don't expend them?"

avatar
mchack: sure, but scum will reread the rules and ask the mod for clarifications if unclear in their night-chat before they'll put down their night action. that is for sure.
Oh, you are SO CUTE when you are naive! :D

I've been scum too. And chatted after games. And read scum threads after games. Let me assure you that your assumption is...not always accurate for every player.

avatar
mchack: and how is it he has to die now, because scum might not actually try and convert him? Why don't you want to lynch scum instead?
Let me add a comma to clarify my meaning:
"Flub needs to die, now that you've explicitly pointed out some other possibilities,"

While he doesn't explicitly have to die right this moment, we can't leave him alive long term.

avatar
mchack: so more likely town for you? just wanna make sure (gotta scumreadlist to take care of you know ;) you are still voting him I also notice
A little bit, yes. Not enough that I wouldn't consider vigging him if I had the chance, but a little bit.

I've worked my way to the front of this wagon. It sure has gotten lonely with just me and the current lynch leader on it, but I'd hate to give up my spot just in time for everyone else to Chinese Fire Drill back onto him.

That Trent wagon doesn't look half bad, though; I'm considering purchasing a time share there. Your wagon also looks rather tasty.

avatar
mchack: most everyone may need to die at some point. Why do you want flub dead now?
Like everything else in life, some people are more equal than others. Flub happens to be a little more equal in this respect, for reasons already covered.

avatar
mchack: I quoted you saying it... oh, we're on this level of detail now? ok, you said my post highlighted a trend in me and others that scum will be able to pick .... which it didn't :P
I said that it is a trend toward an almost assumption. I judge this from the way people talk, like how you've brought up "and then two townies get converted during the night" despite the unlikelihood of that happening. No one has explicitly said it, but several arguments seem to derive support from it.

----------

I need to go, so I will address HSL's post later. I know he'll be thrilled to hear that from me. :)
I will freely admit I haven't been so entertained by a forum mafia game in quite some time.


No offense.
I will not double post again!
avatar
flubbucket: I will freely admit I haven't been so entertained by a forum mafia game in quite some time.

No offense.
yeah, me too.
but right now. not so much. Been trying for hours now to work through hsls last post but it's so convoluted the stuff they accuse you of, you have to click 5 times until you see the beginning of an argument and then work your way back to see where, who said what exactly. And it's almost 4 o'clock in the morning. And Wyrm has also a huge post that needs answered.
You know what, I won't bother anymore.

@HSL I can't really answer without getting impolite. (and I don't want to, because I like you) But this post is a huge load of ...
just vote already, vote me or trent or flubs and live with the flip
and be judged by it from the townies.

@Wyrm hope these "expendable troops" get you.

We only need 7 to lynch. We are 8 town. it shouldn't be such a problem to lynch scum. But if town rather lynches town why even bother.

my scumlist right now in case I don't come back:
adalia
dedo (I'm not so sure about him anymore)
bookwyrm
hsl

Anyway, I'll go to sleep now. I need to sleep. It's less than 48 hours to deadline so I won't be prodded. Also, I wrote too much. can't go on like this. won't be on tuesday I think.
hmm. wednesday. maybe or maybe not. will only be nightkilled anyway for being a bother.
Have fun, guys/gals. I'm out.
avatar
mchack: I will not double post again!
yeah, me too.
but right now. not so much. Been trying for hours now to work through hsls last post but it's so convoluted the stuff they accuse you of, you have to click 5 times until you see the beginning of an argument and then work your way back to see where, who said what exactly. And it's almost 4 o'clock in the morning. And Wyrm has also a huge post that needs answered.
You know what, I won't bother anymore.

@HSL I can't really answer without getting impolite. (and I don't want to, because I like you) But this post is a huge load of ...
just vote already, vote me or trent or flubs and live with the flip
and be judged by it from the townies.

@Wyrm hope these "expendable troops" get you.

We only need 7 to lynch. We are 8 town. it shouldn't be such a problem to lynch scum. But if town rather lynches town why even bother.

my scumlist right now in case I don't come back:
adalia
dedo (I'm not so sure about him anymore)
bookwyrm
hsl

Anyway, I'll go to sleep now. I need to sleep. It's less than 48 hours to deadline so I won't be prodded. Also, I wrote too much. can't go on like this. won't be on tuesday I think.
hmm. wednesday. maybe or maybe not. will only be nightkilled anyway for being a bother.
Have fun, guys/gals. I'm out.
I had no desire to post anymore until Day 2, but I wanted to say that your scum list is the exact same list I made earlier today after doing another read of the thread. The only thing I had added to my list was that I was still unsure about Sage and Krypsyn and could see one of them in place of possibly bookwyrm.
avatar
Leonard03: [...] I honestly don't remember anything else about the game. [...]
avatar
HypersomniacLive: So, the only memorable thing about the game you're thinking is mchack's verbosity as scum, even though it might be a game you were in? Gotcha.
Pretty much.

avatar
Leonard03: [...] Offering oneself up for lynch so as to avoid the possibility of lynching a mason... that's over kill. [...]
avatar
HypersomniacLive: That's not exactly what I meant, and I'm pretty sure that's not exactly what flubbucket's doing.
I'd suggest you start using your brain more than your hip, were I not quite certain you already are.
Huh, ok.

avatar
HypersomniacLive: Well, you hadn't given much indication, if any at all, when you voted adaliabooks... And yet you didn't care to inquire why he placed his vote on adaliabooks, or if it was as it seemed to you.
Agreed, but my votes never surprise me. True, I just assumed it was for similar reasons. He later said it was because adalia was talking too much... not really a great reason in my book.

avatar
Leonard03: [...] Ah, well I'd like to point you to earlier in the same PM you mentioned to me, where it says "Your weapon is your vote..." [...]
avatar
HypersomniacLive: What's the matter, Leonard03, choosing the right night-action turns out harder than you thought?
Not exactly sure what you are getting at here to be honest.

avatar
Leonard03: [...] To me, a scummy vibe I get from a player is a reason. [...] ~snip for brevity~ [...] avoid the obvious slip-ups. [...]
avatar
HypersomniacLive: That's quite the convenient way not to go on record, isn't it?
Again, not exactly sure what you are getting at here. Maybe it's just late, or maybe I'm just a bit dense but I don't know what "record" I am, or am not, going on. Or for what.

avatar
Leonard03: [...] And I don't think it's unfair to say that players on here are experienced enough and clever enough to avoid the obvious slip-ups. [...]
avatar
HypersomniacLive: They sure as hell try, don't they?
You know it.

avatar
Leonard03: [...] I'd suggest to everyone that we instead lynch adalia. Reading his posts gives me the feeling of a scum going under and struggling to grab onto anyone else around to push them down instead. Seeing his flip will be useful to look back over this day and see what we can figure out.
avatar
HypersomniacLive: [emphasis added]

He made a case for lynching flubbucket, as town vanilla, and one for mchack as his scum-read. I don't see him jumping on people left and right, to try and save his skin. How is he trying to grab onto anyone else?

Also, can you point me to where he fought his own lynch when he was the lading wagon?
Well in post 317 he takes some shots at you.
Post 380 casts some shadows on trentonlf.
Post 429 uses myself as an example of someone a bunch of people might find scummy. Not too hard to read between the lines there.

I didn't say he was trying to fight his own lynch, at least not in so many words. Trying to deflect suspicion has the same net result.

avatar
HypersomniacLive: Why do you believe its better?
Because then we'll see who's been killed off. There's a chance flub is, in which case we don't have to worry about it tomorrow. The night's going to be a giant WIFOM mess for scum.

avatar
Krypsyn: "A grilled cheese sandwich is better than nothing. Nothing is better than God. Therefore, a grilled cheese sandwich is better than God."
That there is what we call "equivocation on the word 'nothing'" - I did logic toooo!


avatar
Bookwyrm627: That Trent wagon doesn't look half bad, though; I'm considering purchasing a time share there. Your wagon also looks rather tasty.
I'm seeing a couple people are interested in a trent wagon, I'm not exactly clear why though. Could you explain? Along with the others on the wagon.

Read through the rest of the thread and... don't really have much else to say. This day has pretty much run its course I think. Finishing off a lynch a taking a break will bring us back with renewed vigor. So vote adalia and let's get this show on the road!
avatar
HypersomniacLive: If I asked you to point out some of dedoporno's questions, would you do it, or would I get the same reply you gave me when I asked you to clarify your question-comment on ZFR?
If you have specific questions about specific posts from Dedo, please indicate them. In the meantime, I'll take this as a request for some of Dedo's posts that bothered me.

Post 223 (focus on the self-preservation and the "Why didn't you when it got your attention?").
I believe post 242 was the one that got me the most. The framing of it, and all of it taken together, bothered me.

avatar
mchack: @Wyrm hope these "expendable troops" get you.
They probably will. Wouldn't be the first time, doubt it will be the last.

avatar
Leonard03: I'm seeing a couple people are interested in a trent wagon, I'm not exactly clear why though. Could you explain? Along with the others on the wagon.
For me, there is a feeling of wrong. I haven't gone back and cross-checked everything he's said with his votes and such, though; simply not enough time after I squandered my weekend on family and video games.
@bookwyrm You’re right about payoffs.

@HSL It’s the only one which leaves town wondering what the scum night action was, if they both go for nk then town will know that flub has not been recruited.

Will post more in a few hours, a bit held up because of tests right now.
avatar
mchack: I don't see any clear as light day coming tomorrow just because flub isn't there. Please explain.
Removing flub will remove one fog source that we won't have to always keep at the back of our heads from Tomorrow on. Let a couple of these stay and they will snowball before you know it dragging you down the slope of doubts and second-guessing. We let the exposed role live in the next to last cult game because he had an active power of protection and he ended up sealing the game for the cult on D3 because we turned on the person who ended up backing up the cultists without knowing it. I've tried it, it was cool but I'm not that fond of trying it a second time.

avatar
mchack: We only need 7 to lynch. We are 8 town. it shouldn't be such a problem to lynch scum. But if town rather lynches town why even bother.
Unfortunately that's not really true as nice as it may sound. With so many people needed and so many different opinions + 4 opinions that may or may not help it's not as easy one would like. If it was most games would be Town wins and fast ones, too.

avatar
mchack: dedo (I'm not so sure about him anymore)
Huh?! How did that happen and when?

avatar
mchack: will only be nightkilled anyway for being a bother.
Like trent, right?
avatar
Sage103082: .............. Someone not claiming is not adding to the confusion.
Here's your ticket.
Ok, so here we are 7 days and 29 pages in and we're still on day 1.

Not hard to see why a number of people just want to give up, it's only really my OCD that's keeping me reading and posting.

The four possible wagons appear to be;

Me - honestly not entirely sure what I've done that was so scummy. Talked too much, in favour of flubs lynch and maybe pushed a little hard at mchack seems to sum it up.

mchack - basically spent the entire day trying to get me lynched and his arguments are full of holes. Doesn't necessarily make him scum, I've been there and done that as town myself, but I do get a strong feeling he is scum.

trent - main suspicion seems to stem from his stated intention to vote me and then didn't, before swapping to the flub wagon which he was completely opposed to. Other flags is the whole suspecting he will be killed in the night (why? He's one of the last people I'd expect to get NK'd) and giving up (which aligns with his scum meta a little)

flub - no suspicion at all. May be scum playing a very clever game but is almost certainly vanilla town. Needs to be removed to clear any doubts over his alignment in the future.


I'm happy voting any of those other than me, and I think it's about time we all voted and tried to bring this to a close, one way or another.