Suddenly a slight shudder goes through the ship. Nothing serious, it does that all the time. But this time one of the loose panels in the ceiling drops down and a live wire coils out of it and hits Boowyrm, who had fallen asleep in the middle of the discussion. A painful jolt of electricity courses through his body and startles him awake. Hopefully.

Bookwyrm, your last post reads 3 days ago! Consider yourself prodded and post ASAP how you evade that wire. Otherwise it might kill you ... or turn you into another player, if I find a replacement.
At the same time of Bookwyrm's misfortune, the lights on the bridge dim down a bit and attain a reddish hue. It's still bright enough to work, but apparently the ship's system has decided that it is evening now. From your experience this means, that Night will fall soonish.

************************************
Vote Count

flubbucket 5 - Bookwyrm 187, adalia 265, trent 464, Hunter 466, krypsyn 469
trent 1 - ZFR 475
adalia 3 - Leonard 169, Sage 300, mchack 372
mchack 1 - dedo 361

not voting: flubbucket, HSL
It takes 7 to lynch and flubbucket is in the lead at L-2

Night will fall some time on Wednesday.
**************************************

That was my point but if he refuses to support that approach how will you be able to tell if he was converted or not? Obviously ha can't backpedal tomorrow, since there is no sense in changing his play as Town and if he does as scum he'll be dead for sure. Either way we won't know what happened so he will be a liability as in we don't know if he is still Town or not and it's more than likely D2 continues to revolve around him. The only real way we can tell is if we wake up with 2 dead people, but as flub said the scum will probably try to factor him in their play in some way, so we can't really count on this. Also, 2 shots wasted on one Townie isn't bad but it negates the chances of scum killing themselves by targeting another scum, since flub is a safe choice. That's also taking away complexity from them.

@mchack You’re right. It seems like there’s a trade off involved there as dedo pointed out with respect to complexity yet I’ve to say that probability of scum hitting each other is 20 percent so both scum teams hitting each other comes down to 4 percent(?) which should not be driving our decision right now. In fact this thing (scum teams choosing to recruit or not recruit flub on n1) feels a lot like like prisoners dilemma.
Unvote flub
I’ll need some more time to consider adalia as his later response about flub lynch came off to me as reasonable, feels even more weird that 2 players (sage and Leonard) on his wagon are pretty lurky as well. Trent giving up and voting seems a bit weird but not enough to vote him right now since I had no scumdar pings from him until now. I need to iso these 4 players before coming up with a vote, will do so once I get to my PC.

@lift I know it’s still ongoing but I’d say this is the most fun setup I’ve played with lots of possibilities, thank you for hosting!

there ya go. one babystep at a time, but at least you are using your vote now.
Now next step: try and hit scum with it!

I'm not lift. I happen to disagree. you were quite useful last game. don't know how it would have ended, if we had actually lynched you D1. But Town most likely wouldn't have won on D2 then.

---

He already gave a scumread now, didn't he?
ok so maybe we won't know if flub will be town or scum tomorrow. So what? We don't know if you are town or scum tomorrow! or any of the other 10 players! There never is certainty in mafia, thats what makes it good, that's why we need to scumhunt and lynch the scummiest, not the one we believe is town, because he might or might not be not town anymore tomorrow.
What if we actually do lynch flub and he flips town - Wouldn't adalia be a liability tomorrow then? more so than even flubs might be if left alive? because we can't even lynch the one that agitated to lynch a townie for being scum, when he already said he thinks flubs is town. We don't gain any certainty whatsoever from lynching flubs, we just have missed our chance on killing scum and instead lynched a townie. Even if we lynch flubs, two town vanilla can get converted and we have 6 scum instead of 5 (if we lynch adalia and the same happens). nothing is gained whatsoever by lynching flubs.

as for flub being a safe choice, he isn't. there's two scumteams which will discuss all night whether they wanna try and convert flubs or whether the other team already did (noone wants to lose the only conversion shot they have), or whether they should target another player (or did the other team already do the same?) or or or it's gonna be wifom heaven in there. killing flubs makes it easier for them because one options is off the table.

I thoght I was already scum today ;)

This is clear, but that's not the point. I don't think adalia and most others are/will be voting flub on the off-chance he is scum trying a next-level play. Removing the known Vanilla role is the focus here, the downside being it's also a Town unit. In the same line of thought, what if we do lynch flub and he actually flips scum? Are you a liability then? That's my and I guess others' point - that it's not about the alignment anymore but about the vulnerable role exposure and the potential concequences of it.

The setup says they get 2 conversion shots, one per team memeber or am I missing something?

*bzZZAAAPP!*

After an extended shock, the convulsions finally twitch Bookwyrm away from the still sparking wire. After even more time spent gasping, he eventually manages to sit up, hair all akimbo.

Ow. I think I might have broken something. Do we have a doctor?

Oh. I seem to have fallen asleep. What time is it? What day is it? Hm. Give me some time to check my pocket recorder to see what I missed.

So, he successfully plays to both win conditions then, isn't he?



Ooooo Kay.



Please answer/comment on the point adaliabooks made in his post #429 regarding the following from your post #392:

As I said in my post #432, it's something I too want your answer/comment on.



Ooooor...



While his post #464 raised my eyebrow for more than one reasons, would it have been the hammer had he voted adaliabooks earlier?



[emphasis added]

Can you rephrase/elaborate on the part I highlighted?



Interesting.




@Lifthrasil

This is our 48hrs warning as per rule #15, yes? Does this mean that deadline is set for European morning/noon hours?

So if understanding and believing that flub needs to be lynched makes me scum, what about dedo, or ZFR, or Krypsyn (I can't remember if he specifically supported it in that one post he actually made but the fact he is willing to vote him is enough for me to consider him not against the idea) or Hyper (again, I don't think he has come out in favour or against but he seems to accept the premise for my vote)?
Why is it that you are the only person so desperate for flub not to be lynched?
Is it because you want to convert him to your team for tomorrow?

You are still missing the point. Even if he is not converted tomorrow he may be converted the next day. He is effectively neutral now because any play he makes may be against his eventual win conditions.
And the same would be true for anyone who claimed vanilla (sincerely anyway).


Getting a bit desperate here... your cool, calm scum demeanour is slipping.
No, he is not suicidal in that he will not self vote, but he will want to die while still town so he keeps his win condition.
Yeah... I've played with flub as scum, he may play for fun but I don't think he will play to lose.


So just in case it wasn't clear there are two people I am willing to vote today flub or mchack.
If everyone else is willing to go for it I'm happy to move my vote to mchack, pretty sure he is scum and I'll do another trawl of his posts when I get a chance (hopefully tonight).

There is one thing which I've just realised about him, despite his urging to scum hunt he hasn't really done anything other than OMGUS me and dedo. And funnily enough that's where it stops for him, as if there are only 2 scum in this game and not 4...
Now who would only be looking for 2 scum and not 4...
That's right! Scum!

I'm pretty much 100% certain he is scum at this point, and no matter what your opinion of my alignment is I think everyone else should consider that too.

Like.

dedo, never has voted for flubs
zfr, changed his vote to trent
krypsyn, votes the highest wagon, he was on yours aswell so if you want to deduce anything from his vote it's "I don't care"
hyper, never has voted for flubs

pretty lame list you have there...

why are you so desperate to mislynch?

sure he may be converted the next day (again) BOOM dead scum!
why do you want to get rid of this eventuality?

no it isn't. it only makes people your targets for lynching. Being vanilla doesn't make them less of town. the win condition changes only after one is converted not before, no matter how much you want it to.
Vanillas are town players working for winnig for town. end of story. no ifs and maybies and what may happen in the future. nothing. they work to win this for town.

your win condition is pretty obvious by now though. You want scum to win.

didn't say he would play to lose. I said he'd play for fun and the team he is currently with. Working against your current team on the off chance it may change is not something anyone will do. And it's quite despicable and scummy for you to say so.

Another Lie! post #406 you'll see my 3rd scumread is bookwyrm. (Maybe he hasn't posted so he doesn't have to explain why he's still on flubs wagon? despite all that was said in those 3 days)

And where are your 4 scumreads? I see exactly 1 and thats me, without ever giving good reasons and thats it. but you're not even voting me, no you're here to vote a townie, you'd have an easier time moving to lynch.

You are scum. And you know it.

If scum targets another scum or a hacker with conversion the actor scum will die. That risk is non-existent if they go for the safe choice which is the Vanilla. Even if both teams try to convert the same Vanilla the only thing they are risking is to kill the target which is still not that bad since it takes them one step closer. Hence teh Vanilla is a safe choice. Does that cover your question or did I not understand what you are asking?


Well, if he happens to be actually town he can be tunneling, too because we are motsly the sources of whatever heat is going his way. This particular argument is a bit of setting the facts to match the theory. I don't know about you but I don't have 4 scum reads either :D

only you know that (and your scumbuddy). the rest of us have guess. like with flubs tomorrow. or adalia. or bookwyrm. or hsl. or trent. or zfr. or leonard. or sage. or krypsyn. or hunter. or me. ( well I obviously don't have to guess with me)
See my point? flubs won't be different from others tomorrow.

*emphasis added by me*

1. vulnerable role exposure my ass - there is 5 vanillas out there. I have an Idea who some might be. You sure have an Idea who some might be and scum definitly also has an Idea who might be a vanilla. They don't need flubs to try and convert someone, in fact having flubs stay makes their choice only so much more complex.
2. flub scum - you telling me you now think flubs might be scum? now what if he is and we let him live and the other scum team tries to convert the oh so safe choice flubs? BOOOM dead scum.

try and decide already what you think is true and vote accordingly

I am a liability if we lynch adalia and he flips town. Then you can go after me, because there's no way in hell he is town, the way he talks.

"noone wants to lose the only conversion shot they have" as in s/he has.
Is that the same step closer, that adalia wants to bring us to his win condition?

LOL, warning your buddy there?

@mchack, I haven't read your entire post, I'll do it later when I get back home but this is out of the context of the game. You might want to consider turning it down a notch since your tone and way of addressig others is starting to become inpolite.

damnit. frigging forum software. graah.
hrm. @Lift, I'm terribly sorry, I have posted twice within ten minutes by mistake.

here are screenshots so you can know nothing will ever be changed in that post
(also nothing was in the 8 minutes before the screenshot, though I don't have evidence for that.)