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Bookwyrm627: Can you give us anything else to work with?
1) Did trentonlf had an ability at the end of D1 or did he get one of the abilities that were released? Why assume one or the other as correct?
2) Nothing useful to report with my use of my role.
3) Love the voting patterns again.

Will have to read a bit more closely to see if I missed anything else, but I am quite comfortable where I currently am.
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Bookwyrm627: Can you give us anything else to work with?
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JMich: 1) Did trentonlf had an ability at the end of D1 or did he get one of the abilities that were released? Why assume one or the other as correct?
2) Nothing useful to report with my use of my role.
3) Love the voting patterns again.

Will have to read a bit more closely to see if I missed anything else, but I am quite comfortable where I currently am.
Trent started the game with an ability. Look at the flavor for it.

"Someone has killed him at night.
... However, there are some singed nerves as if some discharge had burned his inside upon his death"
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cristigale: snip
There is nothing fabricated here. Your first post is intended to pass shade on Gamma and those voting. Or in other words, those engaged in the game. Your second is an elaborate post intended to pass shade through a contrived and elaborate post to make it appear you've been giving a great deal of thought to the game.

What is completely scummy about it, is that with all the work you did in both posts discussing pairings, you completely lignore that Drealmer might be scum. All your conclusions are based on there necessarily being 2 scum left. Hence, why it looks like you really didn't put all that much effort into it despite it's length.

I don't care that you now point to a completely unrelated post and claim how "you have discussed Drealmer". That is meaningless. And for you to call my case "fabricated" and continue to claim how I'm ignoring some unreleated post, makes you rather scummy in my book.

When I looked through your ISO, all you've seemingly done all game is cavalierly point fingers.

How can you be sure sure, as uninformed town, that Drealmer was town too? You can't. But you sure act like ignoring that option except for a 3 word throw off that doesn't even mention Drealmer by name is just completely natural in your so-called pursuit of the scum team.

I had Drealmer leaning slightly scummy. I'd guess that most other people had him at best in the neutral range. What makes you so sure he's town? What do you know, that us uninformed town don't, and how did you gain this information?

And then the way you want everyone else to "weigh in" against me based on your flimsy analysis?

Note: I did come out and confirm that I did not receive a PM at the beginning of night like JMich did. As scum, do I really take this chance with no players voting me? If I were scum, I wouldn't know if unstated as such "Vanilla town" like myself were sent one or not. Sure seems a good way to lose a game to me. And JMich would have no actual idea if we did or did not, just assumed based on Drealmer's 8 hour late post.

Now with Bookwyrm joining your vote on thin air as he has a temper tantrum over me not joining his ill-advised JMich crusade and as he pushes for townies to reveal more about their roles than they feel is useful, it opens up room for Bookwyrm as your partner and Day 1 was just busing.

If this game is moving toward a full claim, I suggest Cristi goes first so Sage and JMich specifically have a chance to counter-claim you.

I do have a nuclear option available. I can virtually 100% prove I am town with PM shenanigans if I wanted to. I'd rather people follow my logic instead.

Cristi is too sure Drealmer is town. The only players who could know that are Drealmer and scum. I found my scum.
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cristigale: @Sage – Do you believe this game is not so similar to the last one?
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Sage103082: Yes, it is similar but yet different. It is not a direct copy of the last stalker game. Somethings have changed.
Do you remember how all the powers worked, or just yours?
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Bookwyrm627: Trent started the game with an ability. Look at the flavor for it.
Flavor says he died while having an ability. Doesn't say anything about when he got it.
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JMich: Flavor says he died while having an ability. Doesn't say anything about when he got it.
If you had a role, then you know when he got it.
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Bookwyrm627: Or for discounting majority odds:
There is quite the difference between "ignoring majority odds" and pointing out how Cristi is ignoring a good 1/3 option in her seemingly complete analysis of all possibilities.

We can discount the 1/3 for now as town in terms of acting on it, because if true, that means we have an extra day and are not at MyLo. Sure doesn't mean someone should be discounting the possibility in terms of in-depth analysis though.
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Bookwyrm627: If you had a role, then you know when he got it.
Do I? Is it my role that I passed on? Or is it a role he had from the beginning? Or someone else's role?

And question to you, how do you know when he got it?
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Bookwyrm627: Or for discounting majority odds:
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RWarehall: There is quite the difference between "ignoring majority odds" and pointing out how Cristi is ignoring a good 1/3 option in her seemingly complete analysis of all possibilities.

We can discount the 1/3 for now as town in terms of acting on it, because if true, that means we have an extra day and are not at MyLo. Sure doesn't mean someone should be discounting the possibility in terms of in-depth analysis though.
Fair enough.

I think we're stuck in a situation where several townies have cards to play, but all of them are too afraid to let scum see the cards to actually play them. That leaves scum taking all the tricks because townies aren't playing the game. Scum know whether Drealmer was scum, and they can probably take a good guess at whether there is a neutral in play.

And on the subject of neutrals: At this point, I don't think we have any 3rd parties alive. The only way town wins (short of scum trying to lose) if a 3rd party is currently alive is if Drealmer was scum. So I'm discarding 2S/1N as a lost cause and not worth considering. We can still win a 2S, and 1S is a better version of 2S. Therefore, I'm playing under the assumption we have 2S left. If a townie flips and game doesn't end during the Night, then we can reasonably assume 1S left.

JMich and Sage are apparently in a secret club together, almost certainly based off PRs. While I can see four different scenarios for Sage having a "scum can't be detected" statement, I don't see any way that JMich could be almost certain Sage is town AND JMich did not get anything useful to report with his use of his role. If "Sage is town" didn't stem from his role, then he should be able to lay out the case that Sage is town based on her posts.

RW, many of your "logical" arguments look similar to swiss cheese to me. If you are town, then you need to pull out the PM shenanigans trump card or we lose, because you look like scum to me. You and I are the primary lynch candidates, and the Day could end at any time.

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Bookwyrm627: If you had a role, then you know when he got it.
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JMich: Do I? Is it my role that I passed on? Or is it a role he had from the beginning? Or someone else's role?

And question to you, how do you know when he got it?
Yes, No, Yes, No, Because I ask questions and put together clues.
Unfortunately, it has painted the game for me. It is why I town-read JMich early, because I knew townies will be even more on the lookout for NS than regular players. I didn't try to notice it. But when a lot of the talk was about NSs, I knew why. JMich specifically probed for it and I thought Bookwyrm was trying to use it to read people. None of that is 100% conclusive given that the OP wording also might clue people into the possiblity of NSs, it's just that town will be far more certain.

There was a typo in our original win condition leaving out the word "hostile". This was corrected in a 2nd PM. In order to blow up this abuse so no one else can take advantage of it, the 2nd PM read...
"Correction: Town win condition should read: ...(i.e. all hostile non-town factions) ..."
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RWarehall: Unfortunately, it has painted the game for me. It is why I town-read JMich early, because I knew townies will be even more on the lookout for NS than regular players. I didn't try to notice it. But when a lot of the talk was about NSs, I knew why. JMich specifically probed for it and I thought Bookwyrm was trying to use it to read people. None of that is 100% conclusive given that the OP wording also might clue people into the possiblity of NSs, it's just that town will be far more certain.

There was a typo in our original win condition leaving out the word "hostile". This was corrected in a 2nd PM. In order to blow up this abuse so no one else can take advantage of it, the 2nd PM read...
"Correction: Town win condition should read: ...(i.e. all hostile non-town factions) ..."
Fun fact: Not every townie got an updated PM. It was corrected because I asked whether Lift meant to exclude NS from consideration. Here's a bit of paranoia for you: how certain are you that Lift didn't mention the correction to scum while he was sending corrections to townies? After all, the OP has also been updated.
Leave it to someone else to try to get on the confirmation train...despite my best efforts...

Back to the game...
I find it funny how you like to make grandiose claims of how my logic is full of holes. I think it is solid. I don't expect town PRs to reveal first when the information isn't useful. I expect town PRs to hold back so they have ammunition to debunk counter-claims. I find the holding back of JMich and Sage to be much more townly than scummy, while you paint it the opposite.

I also find it odd, how Cristi makes a whole big long ordeal over Gamma being pushed to L-2 and how that almost definitely means you can find scum on the wagon or Gamma. Since she didn't get involved, then "clearly" she is town, right? When I see players make posts like that, potentially implicating 3 other players and by absence excluding themselves, I certainly consider the possibility this is passing indiscriminate shade. Yet, you have pushed me to L-2 Bookwyrm, and there is no quick hammer...why? And where is Cristi complaining about you putting "town at risk"?

It's these sort of inconsistencies and broad applications of shade which I find potentially scummy. The logic is sound. Calling it swiss cheese seems quite the exaggeration.
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RWarehall: I don't expect town PRs to reveal first when the information isn't useful. I expect town PRs to hold back so they have ammunition to debunk counter-claims. I find the holding back of JMich and Sage to be much more townly than scummy, while you paint it the opposite.
I'd be less all over JMich about his PR claim if he was providing other content, or more at least more than "Oh hai I had a role bye now". Notice how I didn't ride Sage's tail after her claim? She's given more to evaluate, especially for those that might have also had a role at some point. He's been floating incredibly hard since Day 1, and now he says he had a PR but what he says just isn't adding up. He's specifically been avoiding being drawn out, which is NOT conducive to helping town avoid a mislynch.

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RWarehall: I also find it odd, how Cristi makes a whole big long ordeal over Gamma being pushed to L-2 and how that almost definitely means you can find scum on the wagon or Gamma. Since she didn't get involved, then "clearly" she is town, right? When I see players make posts like that, potentially implicating 3 other players and by absence excluding themselves, I certainly consider the possibility this is passing indiscriminate shade. Yet, you have pushed me to L-2 Bookwyrm, and there is no quick hammer...why? And where is Cristi complaining about you putting "town at risk"?
This bit about a lack of quickhammer on you is an example of what I'm talking about with regard to your posts having holes.

Point 1: Precisely 3 people have posted in the game since I voted: you, me, and JMich. I've already voted you, you aren't going to vote yourself, and JMich can't place two votes!! No one is around to actually quick hammer! Add to that the time: it's been ~5 hrs since I voted you.

On the flip side, Gamma was at L-2 for about a full day, and everyone except JMich posted, indicating they showed up.

Point 2: Cristi apparently hasn't been back to see and complain about a quickhammer on you or lack-thereof.

Point 3: why would Cristi make a case for herself being scum? Of course she's going to post as if she's town, regardless of whether she is scum or town, and especially if she's scum.

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RWarehall: It's these sort of inconsistencies and broad applications of shade which I find potentially scummy. The logic is sound. Calling it swiss cheese seems quite the exaggeration.
I think you haven't had a role all game. How's that for a breadcrumb? :P
My problem with your analysis of JMich is that JMich never says that much regardless of alignment. You are pushing it as if it's necessarily scummy rather than NAI (not alignment indicative). And the way you are trying to portray the combination of not saying much and half-revealing as scummy, when the former is JMich regardless of alignment, is not logical. Since the former is NAI, that leaves the latter, the half-reveal. Which by itself, seems towny.

The only questionable thing I've spotted is the idea that Trent could have just gained a power he hadn't had a chance to use yet. It didn't work that way last game. But that said, I can see that same mistaken thought based on an incomplete understanding of the order of actions coming from him being town with a PR or not, so that too is NAI.
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RWarehall: My problem with your analysis of JMich is that JMich never says that much regardless of alignment. You are pushing it as if it's necessarily scummy rather than NAI (not alignment indicative). And the way you are trying to portray the combination of not saying much and half-revealing as scummy, when the former is JMich regardless of alignment, is not logical. Since the former is NAI, that leaves the latter, the half-reveal. Which by itself, seems towny.
I'm after him on the lack of content because such a lack is anti-town; it does not help town, and it helps scum by letting them either blend with a similar lack of helpfulness or (even worse) by looking good in comparison by being much more helpful. I've already stated that I'm trying to draw him into helping town. I've also already covered why I think the minimal PR reveal could just be a disguise.

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RWarehall: The only questionable thing I've spotted is the idea that Trent could have just gained a power he hadn't had a chance to use yet. It didn't work that way last game. But that said, I can see that same mistaken thought based on an incomplete understanding of the order of actions coming from him being town with a PR or not, so that too is NAI.
Possible. Shame we can't get any more clues to try and make an informed decision.

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Jumping topics a little bit, RW, could you give me a run-down of how you've viewed Gamma throughout the game? He is a similar low-content player.