well since there is one about the us debt, and its kinda d-day for the euro.
i'd say let it fall and let us all get our old currency back.

everything here became twice as expensive when the euro was introduced

That's partially because the EU decided to bailout all those damn banks....just like us Americans did over here sadly.

This is not even remotely on topic of the crisis, or helpful in any way, but I remember back in the 80's and the very early 90's when there was no such thing as a euro. I was a young boy, enjoying summer vacations with my family, travelling with a caravan around european countries such as Germany, France, Netherlands, Switzerland. And every time we got to a new country, there was something special about having a new currency to work your heads around.

Nowadays, going from country to country isn't quite the same with the same currency stretching across most of europe.

I'm glad I'm Norwegian and still have the norwegian currency, instead of the boring, soulless European Monopoly Money.

Just to clarify, (a) the banks would have gone bust if they weren't bailed out, and certainly here in the UK that would have meant an entire collapse of the finance system since the high-street banks had their hands in the investment bank tills, and (b) a "bail-out" is actually a loan, so the governments should get their money back*. Not saying that the banks weren't reckless in their lendings, they sure were, but it takes two to tango and people/companies/governments shouldn't have borrowed that much to start with.
(* I'll let you decide how likely this is - v likely here in the UK, maybe not so elsewhere...)

The problems with Greece in particular are that the country is not very efficient, there is a lot of tax avoidance, and the government can't afford to pay the running costs of the country, let alone pay back any money. The Greek government is desperately trying to reduce expenditure so they CAN afford people's wages, that way they can default on the loans and still pay people's salaries. They just spent loads on things that didn't grow the economy with money they didn't have, and they are now facing the consequences. If they go back to the drachma then they'll have an immediate ~40% devaluation in their currency. It should pick up in about 5-10 years time, but it's big problems until then.

As if the banks/gov't won't eventually collapse/go into recession in some of those cases anyways. It's just delaying the near inevitable.

I want to go back to a gold backed money. But we can still call it Euro.

When it's a high street bank that has a massive market share and they need tens of billions of dollars to stay afloat, then it's fairly obvious that if they went bust, it'd be a BIG problem for your country, not just economically but for social order too. Seriously, when they had the negotiations between the banks and the government here, one of the bank officials asked his wife to buy a field with some sheep in it, so they could eat, just in case the deal fell through.

The same happened here in Spain.

Everything here became thrice as expensive as it was before, but the salaries stayed the same. It was also the time loans were given out by banks, like hot bread.

Irenaeus is correct, by the way.

Damn, I tried to move my long post from the US debt discussion to here, but apparently the message board rejects copy pasted messages... :( Do you mean inflation was doubled, so that it nowadays takes you twice as long to earn money to e.g. buy a car than before Euro?

If your salaries have doubled at the same time (thus, your purchasing power has remained about the same, or even become better?), then it is wrong to say everything is twice as expensive due to euro.

In Euro countries the currency has lead to e.g. very low interest rates, which has of course increased housing costs a lot.

Actually in the US we've already gotten most of it back too, even made a profit off of some companies. In grand total, I think the cost of the bailout is supposed to come out to *only* ~$18 billion in the end - which in our government's budget is almost but not quite real money. :P That is a lot better than I thought it was going to be when the bailouts occurred. I was pretty pessimistic that we'd ever get any of it back - especially the first set of handouts which came with no strings or accountability.

BTW the HBO film, "Too Big to Fail" is really great, harrowing, but very good. I highly recommend it.

I think that's the whole point of euro and Schengen. ;) I dunno, I don't really want Finnish "markka" back. It is just so much easier nowadays to go abroad with Euros in your pocket (can trade them to local currencien anywhere in the world, just like US dollars), and also buy stuff online abroad.

Euro has also guaranteed much lower interest rates, but of course in many countries this has led many people getting too big mortgages, which is a problem.

I'd personally prefer that the strong euro countries have their own Euro, and the weak countries whatever they want. The current problem with euro is that there are too different countries and cultures in it. The weak economies are dragging the more powerful ones.

Ps. I consider Norway a special case. After all, you just got lucky decades ago finding oil. :) Then again, thumbs up that you've known how to handle your natural riches, unlike some other oil countries like Nigeria who are tearing themselves apart due to oil.

Also, before the Greek economy collapsed, all public servants got 14 months salary each year, and the age of retirement was 52. It's no wonder they couldn't keep that up any longer.

Well, considering all the "western" countries seem to be in dire debt, and with little chance of paying it off in this generation without going into more debt, I'd say the times of high wages and easy living are basically over. Even if you restructure the loans and hope to god to get a 10% yearly GDP rise (heh heh), those red numbers will not go away without some serious cutting of government programs.

And who's to fault? Everybody, basically. But mostly democracy, as it has a nasty habit of achieving this, since you only come to power or stay in power if you appease the people, and going into debt is the one way to do it, without sacrificing other programs. Good for the short term, bad in the long run.

Don't get me wrong, democracy rules, but has it's flaws.