salaries doubled but most companies,shops etc rounded everything up and eventually what used to cost 2 gulden is now 2 euro (thus still making it twice as expensive as it used to be)
plus our government is cutting on everything like health care, jobs and everything they shouldn't.
we can now go to retirement at age 67 (which was 65) yet we can still pump billions in greece and go in the race to spend 2 billion to get the olympics.
we got foodbanks since the introduction of the euro, why? because alot of people went back with their purchasing power.
the netherlands will become a second america when it comes to its economics and how it's treating its people.

look at the countries who didnt take the euro, like england. they do a whole lot better.

I actually tried to find some hard data about e.g. Netherlands' purchasing power parity over the years, but the data I found started from 2000, which I think is after Netherlands took Euro in use.

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=nl&v=65

2002 the euro came.

True, there were 2 extra salaries for the months of April and December, as both Christmas and Easter are considered special holiday seasons, but this also applied to the private sector.

That's a big lie actually. The normal age of retirement was 60, however (and this only applied to women), special cases could go to retirement at around the age of 50-55 because of having children below 18.

This is relative. The currency alone can't guarantee success or fail in such complex cases. The value of the pound almost halved from that before the crisis, which made exports cheaper. But overall that means a weaker economy (try to buy some oil overseas... more expensive now, eh?). Like I said, relative.

Is it really so? I've understood that e.g. Denmark is in deep trouble with its banks, many of which have already fallen into the hands of Danish government recently.

Also I'm not sure how you rate whether UK is doing better or worse. I've seen only the news how UK has had to cut everything lately, just like any European country. I'm not convinced that has anything to do with currency, but mainly that Western countries are producing less and less (everyone in West wants to become rich quick by playing with stocks, not actually producing anything), while Chinese are producing more and more. The work ethics have deteriorated in the West.

Norway seems to be doing fine, thanks to its oil reserves. Who knows what happens to Norway after they run out of oil (but at least they have kept the oil reserves to themselves and funded the oil money for future, which is sane).

As for your points about pumping money to Greece and Olympics, I tend to agree, as I am also mostly against my country pumping money to "Greece" (ie. saving German, French, Spanish and UK banks). But then, in western democracies you get the leaders you deserve. If you are not happy with the current leaders, don't elect them anymore.

It's not "democracy", it's how the world has been moving since people decided they wanted someone to rule them and decide what's best for them.

Politics have ended up being "the art of satisfying everyone's belly at the cost of someone else" and politicians have degenerated into people who promise this and that, without really thinkin on how they will deliver. It's no wonder every country in the world has debts, for the economic model we have been following for the last century or so is flawed..
What you choose to forget, is that this money was not a gift - rather, it was a loan.

I agree with rest of your message, but not the bite to democracy and how to stay in power.

People are not always stupid, and sometimes they are willing to make the sacrifices that are needed to pull out of dire situations. Maybe it is a cultural thing, I don't know. It seems to me that e.g. Iceland has decided to bite the bullet and hold it together, even though their future seemed quite hopeless too with their banking crisis. Also, thumbs up to e.g. Estonia how they seemed to make some pre-emptive actions to deal with the last economy crisis. I guess that is why Estonia has revived so much better than other Baltic countries.

Finland had its own banking crisis in the early 90s and deep recession, and to me it seems Finland learned something and has been more cautious ever since (e.g. the "Finnish" banks (actually owned by e.g. Swedish banks nowadays) seem to be in quite good shape nowadays, possibly because they have been more cautious with their loans, and/or people getting mortgagaes have been too, unlike in early 90s when it was normal to buy a new house/apartment even though you had not sold your old one yet). Maybe all countries need to be taught the lesson the hard way every now and then.

Firstly, Denmark is a poor example, because even though we don't have the Euro, the value of our Danish Krone (DKK) is slaved to the value of the Euro.

Secondly, the reason so many Danish banks are in trouble is the same reason most other banks are in trouble, i.e. they've been stupid. They've given out lots of questionable loans, and have lent out more money than they actually have.

The problem is that there seem to be serious doubts whether the loans are ever paid back, thus they become gifts. Not necessarily gifts to Greece itself, but the banks abroad.

That is why e.g. Finland is now demanding guarantees to the future loans to Greece. If it is clear Greece will pay the loans back, then it does not matter whether such guarantees are asked, or given.

Ps. It seems to me that in retrospect Argentina cleared its own economic crisis when it stopped doing like IMF demanded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_economic_crisis_(1999%E2%80%932002)

I'm sorry, but it's a lie that's been reported several times in official news media here.

Well, isn't that always the case? ;) Do you think it would have mattered much if Denmark was in euro or not, or whether its currency was tied to euro or not?

Another example could be Iceland. I don't think their krona was tied to Euro when they entered their economy crisis. However, unlike in Greece, the de-evaluation of their currency have probably helped them a lot to get back on track after the crisis. But I guess it also meant harder times for people in Iceland (inflation), at least in short term.

Anyway, I am not quite convinced that overall (for all countries) it would be benefical to have own currency back. For Greece, it may be the only way out, the Argentina case. And yes I think there are too wildly different countries in Euro currently.

EU is going down unavoidably. For such huge chimera it would take 10 or 20 years, but it's coming.

Countries in euro zone are going bankrupt, some countries are willing to shut down Schengen zones, etc etc.

From my point of view the "lazy" western countries have mainly two choices (or both at the same time):

1. Try to compete more with China directly, ie. doing more for less, like China is doing. Yes, unfortunately that could mean less money and benefits for workers and citizens.

2. Protectionism. If we can't compete with them, try to shut them out as much as possible. For example complaining about their "modern slavery" or how Chinese government is openly favoring Chinese companies, and keeping their currency down to help Chinese exports, and using that as a reason for blockage of Chinese goods. That is, the era of trade wars.

If we just sit and pretend nothing is happening, all western countries will go the same way as Greece. We are eating more than we are producing currently, everyone wants to play with money (get rich quick) instead of producing anything worthwile.

I would love to think that the emerging rich Chinese middle-class is also a new chance for western companies (and for some it has been a jackpot, e.g. I think Mercedes-Benz sales in China have soared), but as said, Chinese government seems to make sure that Chinese companies are preferred and favored.

I would say it worked in Finland recently. The euro crisis was probably one of the main reasons why euro sceptic party ("Perussuomalaiset") boomed from a tiny irrelevant party to the third largest party. That is also the reason why Finland is no more taking it gladly in the a** in EU negotiations, or at least that's what we hope.

I propose study trips to e.g. Norway. ;) It appears to me they've known how to use their oil riches to benefit the whole country. Nigeria is the opposite example, don't do like they do. Russia is probably somewhere in between.