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amok: and edit- most data stored on online servers can be hacked and downloaded. This is why, for example, we have illigal WoW servers - this is done already. if you wanted, you can play WoW offline
They're not illegal and they're not the same.


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§pectre: because he can't play part of it.

My interpretation of the R in DRM apart from being Retarded is also Restriction.
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amok: unfortunatly, it is not you who decide what the abrivation stands for. if you want to use your own language, go ahead, I prefer to use (very badly) English.... and don't expect people to understand you when you do
It's perfectly easy to understand that DRM is both retarded and restrictive.
I am simply stating what it is rather than what they want it to be and that is something that everyone who is literate can understand.
Post edited November 26, 2020 by §pectre
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amok: and edit- most data stored on online servers can be hacked and downloaded. This is why, for example, we have illigal WoW servers - this is done already. if you wanted, you can play WoW offline
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§pectre: They're not illegal and they're not the same.
Again - it is a proof of concept that it is possible.

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amok: unfortunatly, it is not you who decide what the abrivation stands for. if you want to use your own language, go ahead, I prefer to use (very badly) English.... and don't expect people to understand you when you do
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§pectre: It's perfectly easy to understand that DRM is both retarded and restrictive.
I am simply stating what it is rather than what they want it to be and that is something that everyone who is literate can understand.
no, becuase it makes the term absolutley meaningless. So everything I think is retarded is DRM. If an RPG game only allows me to make 10 charecters, i.e. it is restricting me as I wanted 12, then it is DRM. By such a standard you present here, everrything becomes DRM, and therfore it becomes meaningless.
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Note: I might have overlooked a message directed to me in all the discussion of what DRM really is. So if you have an addition to the single-player DRM list, please quote me when you write about it. That makes it easier to find.

Also, if I made any errors in the DRM-ed multiplayer list, please let me know.
Not so sure if Absolver counts as a "single-player game" though......
According to its store page intro, it seems more like an online multiplayer game, that also has an offline campaign as an additional feature. It looks like it belongs in the second list better.
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AB2012: This whole thread is an informational topic started by Lifthrasil for the benefit of people who obviously want their single-player games to run 100% offline with 100% of the game's content accessible offline. As spelled out in post #1. People can either contribute or thread-crap / derail / troll with the dumbest fake analogies imaginable. One of these reflects less well on that person than the other. Make your choice.
Exactly. Really now only the OP post is worth reading, but a shame the dunghill has grown so big under it!
Not this crap again.

People come to go for the singleplayer games. Singleplayer games DRM free. THATS the important part. The multiplayer has always come second and to be frank, i'd think majority of the customer base dont give a toss about that part as long as they can install, play the single player game without any issues.
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Niggles: The multiplayer has always come second and to be frank, i'd think majority of the customer base dont give a toss about that part as long as they can install, play the single player game without any issues.
Speak for yourself...the reason it seems most people don't make as much noise over it is because the battle has essentially been lost on that front (DRMed multiplayer, which is unfortunately now standard). I think both are important for a store that is advertised as DRM-free, regardless of what nebulous promises people speak of that "at least singleplayer is DRM-free". Does GOG's "sister site" FCKDRM.com make any distinction between singleplayer and multiplayer, when articulating what is DRM-free and what sources qualify as DRM-free (ironically GOG.com fails this criteria, at least in my reading of it)?
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Niggles: Singleplayer games DRM free. THATS the important part. The multiplayer has always come second
Your opinion.

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Niggles: i'd think majority of the customer base dont give a toss about that part as long as they can install, play the single player game without any issues.
This could well be true.
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MatchaKitsunebi: Not so sure if Absolver counts as a "single-player game" though......
According to its store page intro, it seems more like an online multiplayer game, that also has an offline campaign as an additional feature. It looks like it belongs in the second list better.
Well, according to the store page it is sold as single-player game too. If they would sell it as pure multiplayer game, like GWENT, then it still would be bad that it has DRM. But it wouldn't contradict GOG's pretended '100% DRM-free single-player' advetisement. But as long as the store page says 'single player', it is also a single-player game and that part shouldn't be DRM-ed.
About Multiplayer stuff - it would be nice, if any of these competitive skirmish modes got re-worked to work offline, even if those profiles were separate from the MP (especially if there's leveling-schemes involved).

They should get re-worked so you can run offline and play bots offline - think like Quake 3 Arena.

And more games w/ MP should also have LAN support anyways.
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MysterD: They should get re-worked so you can run offline and play bots offline - think like Quake 3 Arena.
It could work pretty well, depending on how it's implemented.
As an example, Dragon's Crown from the PS consoles also has offline bots in the multiplayer arena, and it works like a charm. And the devs even allow you to get multiplayer related trophies/achievements with bots only.
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I was reading this thread and thought I'd add my own 2 cents.

Since I don't play LAN or use the multiplayer options of any games, I can't really comment on it other than to say hopefully those functions aren't intrusive when it comes to our system OS or hardware.

As far as single player releases on GOG:
- For offline single player mode games, main campaign (story, combat, rewards, etc.) should never be locked to any online connections. Defeats the purpose of playing offline.
- Same as above for any offline single player mode DLC. I don't want to unknowingly click a feature in-game, only to see my browser opening up a connection to the internet. (I'm using you as an example Driftmoon!)
- If features in single player mode are locked behind online connections, then this should be clearly stated on the game store page to allow customers to make an informed decision prior to purchase. Some games do this, not all by a long shot. (I'm using you as an example again Driftmoon!)
- Developers don't owe us any instructions on how to modify their games or design it in such a way as to make it easy, but they also shouldn't deliberately add features to impose restrictions to do so if we legally purchased a copy of their game. Do they not want us to buy future games from them?
- GOG store page only states "DRM FREE. No activation or online connection required to play." They really need to change the wording on that to reflect games that come with features that are locked behind online connections. Maybe add a "Note" under the line.
- If developers want to add online features, then for goodness sake, please add this as a seperate feature in the main menu of the game and not integrated into the single player campaigns. And also, make this very clear in the game menu like "This feature requires internet connection to play." for example. I don't think that's too much to ask.

It's late and I can't think of anything else right now, but will add more if something comes to mind.
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Post edited November 30, 2020 by gog2002x
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gog2002x:
I like and agree with most of your post; however, I disagree with the following point:

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gog2002x: - GOG store page only states "DRM FREE. No activation or online connection required to play." They really need to change the wording on that to reflect games that come with features that are locked behind online connections. Maybe add a "Note" under the line.
No, imo GOG should grow a pair and insist that developers either remove the online requirement, or pull their game from the store. I would like to see GOG taking a zero-tolerance attitude towards DRM and/or any sort of online requirement and pushing for this to be removed from all games, rather than spinelessly appeasing developers with smallprint on the store page.
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gog2002x:
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Time4Tea: I like and agree with most of your post; however, I disagree with the following point:

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gog2002x: - GOG store page only states "DRM FREE. No activation or online connection required to play." They really need to change the wording on that to reflect games that come with features that are locked behind online connections. Maybe add a "Note" under the line.
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Time4Tea: No, imo GOG should grow a pair and insist that developers either remove the online requirement, or pull their game from the store. I would like to see GOG taking a zero-tolerance attitude towards DRM and/or any sort of online requirement and pushing for this to be removed from all games, rather than spinelessly appeasing developers with smallprint on the store page.
It was late at night before bed when I made the post lol and believe me, I feel the same as you on the DRM part. I probably could have left that one line out of the post, but then I wouldn't have had a chance to hear your side of it. =P

Since a lot of the games I buy end up in backlog, I strongly believe any game I buy from GOG should not have any online connection surprises for me later on. That later on tends to be months or years down the road when I no longer have the option for refunds. At that point, those surprises are downright depressing lol.

However I would still like to see the game stay here regardless, even if I'd never buy it in that state. The main reason is at least then we have the option to provide feedback to GOG or even the developers (if we're lucky enough), to maybe get the DRM parts patched out. It may be a small hope, but I'd like to think it's not zero. (I know some people consider those in-game locked features rather than DRM, but I seriously dislike hitting those walls when I'm playing a single player campaign. Feels the same as DRM)

If it leaves GOG, then the chance for change is absolutely zero.
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gog2002x: If it leaves GOG, then the chance for change is absolutely zero.
If it doesn't leave GOG, it changes GOG (or adds to the changes, that is), and the target audience, drawing in even more who don't care and putting off even more of (the already few left of) those who do. And gives both GOG and the rightsholder income, proving to them that stuff can be sold here with DRM (or on-line single-player features, for those who bafflingly insist on separating the two). That outweighs any potential tiny chance for a positive change in the game by an insane amount.