It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
What many people think: China started all this. GOG had to respond somehow and couldn't do anything else because China threatened them.

What actually happened: GOG started all this by announcing Devotion's release on their Weibo (China's Twitter), and China is just being China.

Think about it. The game caused a controversy in China before (objectionable material was since removed). There was a campaign against it on the Chinese social media. If you were in GOG's shoes and decided to re-release the game a year later, which one place do you want to avoid posting about it?

Your answer: Ch............. s............. m...........

Clearly, that wasn't GOG's answer. Why? Who knows. But the point is:

They let the Chinese social media know first-hand from their official Weibo account that the game these people successfully managed to get taken down from Steam a year ago is now coming back. So, the same people started the same campaign again. Surprising? Not.

They tweeted straight into the lion's den. What did they expect? Everything else that followed is purely on them.

GOG cannot claim they only did what they did to survive if they had started it all themselves.

What if: Instead GOG could have released the game elsewhere except in China, not posted about it in China, and there would have been no controversy in China.

There were games censored in some countries released on GOG before, and GOG were able to sell them elsewhere. There are also other games on GOG that used to be controversial in China but nobody on the Chinese social media is complaining about it because GOG didn't remind them by tweeting about it from their official Weibo account.

What now: They should not have promoted the game in China, and they should not have banned it outside of China. Both are politically-charged decisions, and businesses should avoid political activism. But the first misstep cannot be cancelled by the other, the mistakes only keep compounding.

It's one thing to buy from China. It's another thing to let China determine who you can buy from.

The former is fine. The latter puts anyone who agrees to it in a subordinate position.

Chinese customers are important. Their sensitivities should be respected. But the other customers must not be an afterthought either.

China themselves understands this and just like they wouldn't let anyone else decide what's going on within their country, they accept they won't have the final say in what's going on outside their borders. Disney's very own Winnie-the-Pooh hasn't been banned worldwide, despite the company's huge presence in China.

The right thing to do now is still to release the game outside of China. This is the only decision that can convince people from over 190 other countries that they are not second-class customers to GOG.

Credit: the announcement was actually spotted early on by Mori_Yuki but it seems very few people are aware of it until now. GOG's Weibo post was deleted since but I was able to verify it with other sources and obtain a screenshot, on which you can also see some people celebrating. The second screenshot is GOG's retraction statement. Both are attached. The last part of my message was inspired by a post by Shendue.
Attachments:
Post edited December 23, 2020 by Turbo-Beaver
low rated
Thanks for posting those screenshots, Turbo-Beaver.

What does the text in them say, though?

I agree with most of your post. I'm iffy on this part though, in which you seem to be suggesting it's fine to ban the game in China due to alleged complaints about it from supposed Chinese gamers:
avatar
Turbo-Beaver: Chinese customers are important. Their sensitivities should be respected. But the other customers must not be an afterthought either.
How do we know that there were actual "Chinese customers" who allegedly complained, as opposed to say, government agents, or bots controlled by government agents, or just general trolls who don't care about GOG and only came to the controversy when they heard about it from others, but who have zero interest in GOG?

And furthermore, how do we know that there are more Chinese gamers who want the game banned, than those who do not? Shouldn't GOG at least conduct a scientific poll or something like that, in order to make a sound determination as to whether or not it is truly the case that more want it to be banned?

And what about people from China who are living abroad and who are GOG customers, they are still Chinese, so do they get a say? If not, why do the alleged 'gamers' who live in China have more say than the Chinese people who now live in a different country?

And a lot of people, including myself, object to GOG carrying terrorism-simulator & glorification games, like "Tonight We Riot," yet GOG ignores us and keeps right on selling that evil game on their platform, and GOG gives zero consideration to our sensitivities.

So with all that being so, why should alleged gamers in China have the special privilege to dictate what games GOG isn't allowed to sell, but yet, customers in other nations have no such privilege, and zero say as to what GOG does or doesn't sell?

Having said all that, I do agree with the general idea of your overall post, and most certainly GOG needs to, at the very least, unban the game in every other nation besides China, if they are going to ban it at all.
Post edited December 23, 2020 by Ancient-Red-Dragon
low rated
avatar
Ancient-Red-Dragon: What does the text in them say, though?
I'll try to post a translation later (or if anyone else wants to in the meantime, please feel free to do so).
avatar
Ancient-Red-Dragon: I agree with most of your post. I'm iffy on this part though, in which you seem to be suggesting it's fine to ban the game in China
What I'm trying to do is to summarize the strongest arguments why the game should at least be released elsewhere. Whether it should be released in China is, I believe, a separate matter (which we can also discuss, of course).

As far as I know, there isn't anything in the game that would warrant it being banned in China either. But I also think it's not for us to decide this. Just like we don't want it being decided for us whether it's banned elsewhere.
avatar
Turbo-Beaver: Chinese customers are important. Their sensitivities should be respected. But the other customers must not be an afterthought either.
avatar
Ancient-Red-Dragon: How do we know that there were actual "Chinese customers" who allegedly complained, as opposed to say, government agents, or bots controlled by government agents, or just general trolls who don't care about GOG and only came to the controversy when they heard about it from others, but who have zero interest in GOG?
What I wrote I meant as a general observation. In response to what happened, some people have become very vocal against China, and everything Chinese. I don't agree with it personally, and I also think GOG should respect all their customers as a general rule. One reason I'm about to abandon ship is that I don't feel respected the way GOG handled this. Neither do the Chinese customers writing in their forum, and getting no response whatsoever. Something's wrong about all of it.

Back to Devotion: we don't really know who complained. I wrote about what I think might happened in an earlier post (which I think you've seen), and also here but it's just conjecture. I think it might have been people broadly interested in gaming but not necessarily GOG's prospective customers.

As an aside, before Devotion was delisted from Steam (by the Chinese publisher), the objectionable stuff was removed from the game in a patch but the people complaining about it were apparently using pirated copies, so they never got the patch that removed the stuff they were complaining about. This is supposedly one reason why the controversy about it never subsided.
avatar
Ancient-Red-Dragon: And furthermore, how do we know that there are more Chinese gamers who want the game banned, than those who do not?
Devotion seems to have a lot of positive feedback from Chinese players on Steam forums. There are not many games portraying Chinese culture in an authentic way (since the authors are familiar with it). In other circumstances it's not difficult to imagine a game like this actually being promoted by China as it showcases their culture.

People who don't like something always have the option not to buy it and move on, so I generally find it very suspicious that someone would spend their time trying to get something like this delisted, as the original issue with it was resolved. I expect only a small minority would want it banned compared to the number of people who would want to play it. But again, this is just conjecture.
avatar
Ancient-Red-Dragon: And a lot of people, including myself, object to GOG carrying terrorism-simulator & glorification games, like "Tonight We Riot," yet GOG ignores us and keeps right on selling that evil game on their platform, and GOG gives zero consideration to our sensitivities.

So with all that being so, why should alleged gamers in China have the special privilege to dictate what games GOG isn't allowed to sell, but yet, customers in other nations have no such privilege, and zero say as to what GOG does or doesn't sell?
I'm not aware of this but if that's case then that's a very good question to ask.
Only GOG could be so stupid, so tonedeaf and self-destructive that they could jam a stick into a hornet nest and then be surprised by the result.

Whoever runs their PR deserves to be fired. Preferrably into the sun.
low rated
avatar
Turbo-Beaver: What many people think: China started all this. GOG had to respond somehow and couldn't do anything else because China threatened them.

What actually happened: GOG started all this by announcing Devotion's release on their Weibo (China's Twitter), and China is just being China.

Think about it. The game caused a controversy in China before (objectionable material was since removed). There was a campaign against it on the Chinese social media. If you were in GOG's shoes and decided to re-release the game a year later, which one place do you want to avoid posting about it?

Your answer: Ch............. s............. m...........

Clearly, that wasn't GOG's answer. Why? Who knows. But the point is:

They let the Chinese social media know first-hand from their official Weibo account that the game these people successfully managed to get taken down from Steam a year ago is now coming back. So, the same people started the same campaign again. Surprising? Not.

They tweeted straight into the lion's den. What did they expect? Everything else that followed is purely on them.

GOG cannot claim they only did what they did to survive if they had started it all themselves.

What if: Instead GOG could have released the game elsewhere except in China, not posted about it in China, and there would have been no controversy in China.

There were games censored in some countries released on GOG before, and GOG were able to sell them elsewhere. There are also other games on GOG that used to be controversial in China but nobody on the Chinese social media is complaining about it because GOG didn't remind them by tweeting about it from their official Weibo account.

What now: They should not have promoted the game in China, and they should not have banned it outside of China. Both are politically-charged decisions, and businesses should avoid political activism. But the first misstep cannot be cancelled by the other, the mistakes only keep compounding.

It's one thing to buy from China. It's another thing to let China determine who you can buy from.

The former is fine. The latter puts anyone who agrees to it in a subordinate position.

Chinese customers are important. Their sensitivities should be respected. But the other customers must not be an afterthought either.

China themselves understands this and just like they wouldn't let anyone else decide what's going on within their country, they accept they won't have the final say in what's going on outside their borders. Disney's very own Winnie-the-Pooh hasn't been banned worldwide, despite the company's huge presence in China.

The right thing to do now is still to release the game outside of China. This is the only decision that can convince people from over 190 other countries that they are not second-class customers to GOG.

Credit: the announcement was actually spotted early on by Mori_Yuki but it seems very few people are aware of it until now. GOG's Weibo post was deleted since but I was able to verify it with other sources and obtain a screenshot, on which you can also see some people celebrating. The second screenshot is GOG's retraction statement. Both are attached. The last part of my message was inspired by a post by Shendue.
You from Christmas Island, and its Christmas!
Hope Santa gives you the gift of brains, you are severely lacking in that department.
Post edited December 25, 2020 by kaboro
avatar
ReynardFox: Whoever runs their PR deserves to be fired. Preferrably into the sun.
That would be quite the feat, considering the complexities brought by orbital mechanics. Simpler would be to shoot them into the freezing expanse of deep space. Hmm, The Expanse...
avatar
ReynardFox: Only GOG could be so stupid, so tonedeaf and self-destructive that they could jam a stick into a hornet nest and then be surprised by the result.

Whoever runs their PR deserves to be fired. Preferrably into the sun.
Well, they were about to shot into the sun but due to complaints by many astronauts the PR department will no longer be arriving there.
Haha, oh man. Their PR department really is run by complete incompetents.
avatar
Ancient-Red-Dragon: Thanks for posting those screenshots, Turbo-Beaver.

What does the text in them say, though?

I agree with most of your post. I'm iffy on this part though, in which you seem to be suggesting it's fine to ban the game in China due to alleged complaints about it from supposed Chinese gamers:
avatar
Turbo-Beaver: Chinese customers are important. Their sensitivities should be respected. But the other customers must not be an afterthought either.
avatar
Ancient-Red-Dragon: How do we know that there were actual "Chinese customers" who allegedly complained, as opposed to say, government agents, or bots controlled by government agents, or just general trolls who don't care about GOG and only came to the controversy when they heard about it from others, but who have zero interest in GOG?

And furthermore, how do we know that there are more Chinese gamers who want the game banned, than those who do not? Shouldn't GOG at least conduct a scientific poll or something like that, in order to make a sound determination as to whether or not it is truly the case that more want it to be banned?

And what about people from China who are living abroad and who are GOG customers, they are still Chinese, so do they get a say? If not, why do the alleged 'gamers' who live in China have more say than the Chinese people who now live in a different country?

And a lot of people, including myself, object to GOG carrying terrorism-simulator & glorification games, like "Tonight We Riot," yet GOG ignores us and keeps right on selling that evil game on their platform, and GOG gives zero consideration to our sensitivities.

So with all that being so, why should alleged gamers in China have the special privilege to dictate what games GOG isn't allowed to sell, but yet, customers in other nations have no such privilege, and zero say as to what GOG does or doesn't sell?

Having said all that, I do agree with the general idea of your overall post, and most certainly GOG needs to, at the very least, unban the game in every other nation besides China, if they are going to ban it at all.
Not entirely sure but I think Fan7a-sy tells one person something like "regardless, CDPR still insulted" and I think he encourages to convince GOG to prohibit the game.

Kwiat laughs at GOG for how quickly they backpedaled.

I find the weibo usage of @ and // completely confusing though. lol (yes I'm not big on social media, I find twitter confusing too).
Post edited December 25, 2020 by SLOFila
avatar
Turbo-Beaver: Your answer: Ch............. s............. m...........
Chinese sunday magazines.
avatar
sanscript: [...]
Hui! Children beware, one of the Christmas troll from the far north is on the loose...
high rated
avatar
Turbo-Beaver: What many people think: China started all this. GOG had to respond somehow and couldn't do anything else because China threatened them.

What actually happened: GOG started all this by announcing Devotion's release on their Weibo (China's Twitter), and China is just being China.
GOG actually started this when they insulted our intelligence by telling us we wanted this, and by continuing to remain silent on this. So has my wallet so far, and my games have almost finished backing up today. They literally could have said something far more generic, like "Due to issues surrounding the game and internal discussions on whether our store could offer proper hosting under such circumstances, we've determined that we won't be able to offer hosting for Devotion at this time and offer our apologies to the developers." I. a random forum user, can come up with a better message than they can.
Post edited December 25, 2020 by BitLiz
avatar
kaboro: Hope Santa gives you the gift of brains, you are severely lacking in that department.
What is it that you disagree with specifically?
high rated
avatar
kaboro: Hope Santa gives you the gift of brains, you are severely lacking in that department.
avatar
Turbo-Beaver: What is it that you disagree with specifically?
Cut him some slack. You made him painfully aware about his incapability to comprehend too many words at once. And since you used more than three he leashes out. Please be a bit more respectful about your fellow forumites disadvantages next time. :/
Who cares
avatar
Turbo-Beaver: Your answer: Ch............. s............. m...........
avatar
elgonzo: Chinese sunday magazines.
Christmas sado masochism