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OldOldGamer: The thing is that no one have the vague idea of what will go to happen. ...
Why is Germany so often depicted as the bad guy even now? I don't really get it. As if Germany would have super powers while in reality it's much more powerless than you think.

On the other hand some kind of Brexit will happen. Hard or soft, that is the question. And not everything can get gained by negotiations because they always have to be agreed upon by both.

So while Theresa May today states that "she will aim for “maximum access” to the EU single market." in this context "maximum" could be quite small. Who would not aim for the maximum?

Britain and the rest of the EU are not agreeing on migration, but they both aim to maximize market access. Britain insisting on stopping immigration will probably lose some market access, EU citizens will probably lose working access. A lose-lose situation if you ask me, but a sovereign decision nontheless, and therefore it will be done and we will experience the results as they happen. Elections in Britain in 2020 will be the ultimate verdict on the outcome of the Brexit, I guess.
The point is: who is benefitting more from the EU as is implemented now?
Who is sufffering more?
How a proclaimed union can allow things like Greece to happen, were real people suffering?

I don t want to go into a blame of Germany, but sure they are not the good guys.
If they are, again, troubling Europe, is because other European countries, weak and corrupt, allowed it.
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OldOldGamer: The thing is that no one have the vague idea of what will go to happen. ...
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Trilarion: Why is Germany so often depicted as the bad guy even now?
We simply don't like you, deal with it :P

More seriously, here's a recent German article about Joseph Stiglitz and his opinion on Italy and Europe (I have his latest book but haven't read it yet):
https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article158574990/Star-Oekonom-erwartet-den-Euro-Austritt-Italiens.html
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catpower1980: ... We simply don't like you, deal with it :P ...
We? Us? 99.9999% of the world population doesn't even know me, so how can they not like me? ;)
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catpower1980: ... We simply don't like you, deal with it :P ...
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Trilarion: We? Us? 99.9999% of the world population doesn't even know me, so how can they not like me? ;)
Like in most JRPG's that's because you don't know who you are yet, but soon your world-changing destiny will unveil :o)
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catpower1980: We simply don't like you, deal with it :P

More seriously, here's a recent German article about Joseph Stiglitz and his opinion on Italy and Europe (I have his latest book but haven't read it yet):
https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article158574990/Star-Oekonom-erwartet-den-Euro-Austritt-Italiens.html
Sorry but with this:

"„Die Krise begann in den USA, aber die Wirtschaft dort erholt sich wieder, während die Euro-Zone vor sich hindümpelt“, sagt der Ökonom, der in der Vergangenheit Chefökonom der Weltbank war. Beide Wirtschaftsräume seien ähnlich aufgestellt, verfügten über ähnliches Humankapital, ähnliche Bodenschätze und ähnliche Institutionen. „Der große Unterschied“, sagt Stiglitz, „ist der Euro. " "

He really lost all credibility.

In the US were cities are bankrupt, whole states are bankrupt and he is saying the economy is recovering?
With the ever-growing US deficit which in no way is repayable?

The only thing I agree with him, that their is no solidarity. But the problem there comes down to something different:

That companies and Rich-people are NOT paying their taxes!

Examples needed?
Apple, e-bay, amazon, Hoehnes just to name a few!

Let's just have a look at Hoehnes, he withheld 30+ MILLION Euros in taxes, that would mean that the average German would need to withhold 1 MILLION Euros in 1 year.

The problem is PURELY a political one, nothing else. If the EU would finally handle those crooked business accordingly, we would not have this problems.

Just look at the crooked business models of amzon and so on, they make their money in Germany (insert your country here) but they do not pay taxes instead they relocated to another country.

Did you try to do this with your local tax office, they will tell you right away: Fuck off, shut up and pay!

So why are they treated differently?

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article11270746/Warum-die-Fussball-Stars-aus-Deutschland-fluechten.html

In Germany they have to pay their due, 45%
Italy is making exceptions.....

And before they would even take a apartment in like Belgium trying to evade taxes till the EC decided no, you pay taxes were you work/earn your money!

So again why are companies hold to a different standard?

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/steuerhinterziehung-im-internet-amazon-haendler-entkommen-finanzamt-a-817847.html

Try this as a natural person: answer see above.

The problem is that a natural person shall have more rights then a judicial person, but the problem is that the judicial person has been so diluted (purposely) that it is getting harder and harder to hold somebody responsible.
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catpower1980: ...More seriously, here's a recent German article about Joseph Stiglitz and his opinion on Italy and Europe (I have his latest book but haven't read it yet):
https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article158574990/Star-Oekonom-erwartet-den-Euro-Austritt-Italiens.html
Forgot to answer on that one. You definitely should read the book if you haven't yet. I like him too but an opinion piece even of a genius can easily be wrong. Books are better, research papers even more so and a number of books or publications of many distinguished guys are the best.

I actually agree with putting some blame on the Euro and I think while it is only a currency and as such quite innocent, it was poorly supported by a fiscal union. In the first years after the introduction in 2002-08 there should have been much more strict debt reduction efforts in southern Europe (Italy and Greece running deficits even during the boom years which is totally anti Keynesian) and in the same way Germany should have insisted on cutting expenses after 2008 but surely not on increasing taxes (which it did to) and it should have increased its own expenses much more which was also anti Keynesian. All in all everybody got it wrong. Blaming only one country, when all the time all countries decided together and acted together all the time - seems a bit oversimplifying.

The Euro helped to create some big imbalances, however now we are stuck with it. And I wonder if going back is any viable option at all? Or is going forward the only possible option and sooner or later a fiscal union will have to come of those countries already having the Euro? I don't know. The US also has a common currency or Russia or China or India and still you'll find big economic differences in all of these countries and none of them blames the currency for economic problems. Common currencies also have advantages, the Euro is quite stable and very solvent, easy to convert.

Let's see what happens, although I guess we are stuck in some sub-optimal solution and won't easily get out of it and this is hardly the fault of Germany alone but everyone, really everyone can have a part of the blame to be fair.
Post edited October 24, 2016 by Trilarion
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catpower1980: ...More seriously, here's a recent German article about Joseph Stiglitz and his opinion on Italy and Europe (I have his latest book but haven't read it yet):
https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article158574990/Star-Oekonom-erwartet-den-Euro-Austritt-Italiens.html
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Trilarion: Forgot to answer on that one. You definitely should read the book if you haven't yet.
Well, you'll have to be patient as I have big backlog of paper books, so I won't be able to read it before 2017 :o)

________________________________________________________

In somehow other news but still related to EU questions, I'm quite enjoying the international drama we (the Walloons) have caused by refusing to agree to the CETA (the trade agreement between Europe and Canada). The debate is heavily polarized between the pro and anti CETA as we get a lot of rage and tears from liberals like this:
http://www.dw.com/en/opinion-the-eus-walloon-ceta-disaster/a-36116145
(although this one is quite polite....)

Actually, without debating over the CETA in itself or the "true" motives of our regional government (as they could do that to counter the rise of the far-left here), it's quite funny to see some parallels between the Brexit and the "Walloon resistance" as the pro-EU claim that's it's gonna bring the apocalyse on Europe and its whole economy (and that Wallonia will become Walbania but it's already the case so we don't care ^^) or demands that laws and "democracy" should be adapted to not take our "vote" into acount.

The icing on the cake are the Flemish regionalists (first party in Flanders) who act like the Scottish by claiming their independance and wanting more globalization (while the hardcore Flemish regionalists congratulates us for keeping our sovereignty).

All in all it's quite funny as we're seen as having commited a big crime and stabbed EU in the back, just like the Brexiters did. Normally, the CETA should be signed this thursday but we'll see how it evolves.

A region of 3,6 millions citizens deciding for a continent of more than 500 millions people. Belgium, what else? :o)
Seems the <span class="bold">UK</span> has had a 0.5% growth in the last 3 months (after Brexit) , if we multiply that for a year that's a projected 2% growth if it continues at this rate.
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rtcvb32: Seems the <span class="bold">UK</span> has had a 0.5% growth in the last 3 months (after Brexit) , if we multiply that for a year that's a projected 2% growth if it continues at this rate.
It's generally good, but for now brexit is only an idea.
We'll see when treates changes.
Forget brexit. Toni Blair is using that cheap diplomacy trick suggestion that other diplomats (especially american ones) said earlier; that potentially, referendum can be repeated.

Besides, Belgium already signed for Ceta! TTIP is to follow, we can't have anyone getting the easy way out, or anything other than a unison of obedient targets, guinea pigs and willing boot-lickers to oligarchy scum and NWO agents!
Post edited October 28, 2016 by KiNgBrAdLeY7
The establishment aren’t even keeping up the pretence of democracy anymore.

Your votes does not matters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3898716/D-Day-Brexit-Britain-s-exit-EU-DELAYED-landmark-court-case-rules-Theresa-start-EU-talks-without-MPs-vote.html
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Gnostic: The establishment aren’t even keeping up the pretence of democracy anymore.

Your votes does not matters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3898716/D-Day-Brexit-Britain-s-exit-EU-DELAYED-landmark-court-case-rules-Theresa-start-EU-talks-without-MPs-vote.html
Yes, that terrible pesky law getting in the way of things. It's the shadowy tentacles of the Illuminati I tell you!

In all likelihood it's not going to stop Brexit anyway. It's simply a legal matter of the procedure to follow.
Post edited November 03, 2016 by Breja
The High Court's decision certainly isn't going to help the thick atmosphere of animosity in the UK (I could sense the very strong anti-English sentiment in Scotland recently, so I dread to think how things are in England) and it will certainly embolden the conspiracy theorists. Looking at Facebook, I already see the neo-nazi twits talking about invoking civil war and bombing parliament. This is what that pathetic shitsack of a country has descended to.

The fact remains that the referendum was on shaky legal ground to begin with.

Because the referendum was advisory and not even binding in the first place, acting on it with such a wafer thin majority when it would deprive a substantial share of the population of their fundamental rights against their wishes (protections and freedoms granted by way of EU legislation) would never have held up legally. And because the referendum is non-binding, it also does not constitute a democratic mandate, so it falls to those that do have a democratic mandate to debate and decide on how to deal with the results.

Seems to me that the far right in particular (but also the far left) are quick to scream democracy when it suits them but really don't give two flying fucks about the rule of law and the integrity of parliamentary democracy when it doesn't fall in their favour.
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jamyskis: Looking at Facebook, I already see the neo-nazi twits talking about invoking civil war and bombing parliament. This is what that pathetic shitsack of a country has descended to.
Oh please. There is no need for talk like that, because of some extremists on facebook for fuck's sake. I doubt you'd find a single country on Earth without them (except for someplace like North Korea :P)