dkclemons1: That's one of the frustrating things about stealth games for me, too. The Save Points normally suck so you're forced to do things over and over.

I forgot about The Masquerade: Bloodlines. I could never get that game to run on my computer right. I should try it again. It seemed like a solid stealth game.

Malleus: This is the only one I found, a video walkthrough:
http://www.gameanyone.com/game/PC/1844.html

Nirth_90: About save system, I heavily agreed. I didn't grow up with NES system (thank god..) and I've tried a few games there that were unbelievably unforgiving for a small mistake with horrible savings and it doesn't help most games to PC these days have horrible auto-save systems.

About VTMB, I recommend that you download the latest unofficial patch, 8.1 beta 2 I think. It will fix a lot. If you're into modding even first time then I suggest Clan Quest 3.0 mod package. It incorporates the unofficial patch 7.9 as well as a few mods that makes a few better changes to gameplay (subjective of course) and adds a few other things. Admin rights and XP compatibility mode should also help the game working.

Personally I'm a sucker for stealth games, it's a pity I haven't played through Thief games yet (I own them on discs), I think I should try them again and see.

To be honest, any decent adventure game with a focus on plot and some light RPG elements that incorporates stealth is usually my kind of thing. :)

Sabin_Stargem: Come to think of it, I have a stealth game that I recommend to avoid: No One Lives Forever 2.

EC-: I've actually never been a fan of stealth games. I find the "sitting and watching" gameplay absurdly tedious. For instance, in Metal Gear Solid (the first one) there is a section where you must sneak through a nuclear weapon disposal facility without using your weapons. It requires a lot of sitting and watching enemy patrols, and it just drove me fucking nuts. I also tried to get into Manhunt (by Rockstar), and had to quit by the junkyard level. Just having to sneak out there to kill a guy took a really long time, and if you managed to fuck up your path to the enemy you would get spotted and killed, and forced to start over at an inconvenient checkpoint.

Maybe someone here can recommend a stealth game that would change my mind (I do not like Splinter Cell either), but as it stands I just find the genre extremely tedious.

Strijkbout: :raging with fury:

There are a few (mildly annoying) stealth missions in NOLF 1 and 2, but to say to avoid them completely?

That is like saying don't watch Monty Python's Flying Circus because it has a few lame jokes.

StingingVelvet: The genre is all about patience and getting that big payoff for the slow buildup. If you don't enjoy that I wouldn't waste your time on any suggestions, especially Thief.

Nirth_90: That's true but I have to agree with him as mentioned before if the game utilize some useless auto save system it's not so fun.

Mrstarker: Thief 1&2. Why? Three reasons:

1) Freedom:
* Smart sneaking. If you want, you can totally hack and slash through the levels and make the guards into improvised pincushions with your arrows. Not doing so makes you feel you're outsmarting the enemy. Moving through a manor like a ghost and pinching stuff right under people's noses or from their belts can be incredibly satisfying.

* Non-linearity. There are multiple ways of solving problems: Hmm... two guards at the unlocked front door. Maybe I'll extinguish the torch with a water arrow and sneak past them. Maybe I'll try picking the back door lock while the patrolling guard is away. Maybe I'll shoot a rope arrow into a conveniently placed wooden beam and hop through the window on the second floor.


2) Immersion:
* First person view. Having to peek around corners to see where the guards are greatly adds to the tension. You literally see the world through your character's eyes.

* Great use of sound. Firstly, the ambient music adds to the experience rather than takes you out of it. Secondly, the sound effects are just right for the occasion: picking a lock open makes a satisfying *click*, while grabbing gold makes a nice greedy *ka-ching*. Thirdly, sound plays an important role in your thieving. If you can't peek around corners, you can just listen to the guards' footsteps and estimate where they are. At the same time, you have to pay attention to how much noise you're making yourself. Lastly, the voice acting is good and doesn't ruin your experience.

* You are in control. Your character does not have stats that make him better at sneaking. It's you who's getting better. It's not only satisfying in and of itself, it also helps to put you into your character's shoes. You case the joint, you plan the heist, you make the getaway. Also, being constantly aware of how visible you are helps you to plan your sneaking and can lead to incredibly intense moments as you teeter on the border of the enemy's perception.


3) Rich universe:
* The world feels alive. The levels are huge and exploration is rewarded. The city is filled with intrigue and politics. A secret order is trying to keep tabs on everything. You have religious fanatics pursuing their goals, supernatural creatures that inhabit the darker corners, corrupt nobles that try to one-up each other. There are inventors building steampunk machinery and necromancers raising the dead.

* Interesting characters. Not only do you have a savvy and cynical anti-hero protagonist, the supporting cast often has a nice backstory. You're not robbing just a crime lord, you're robbing a crime lord that likes to keep pet burricks and is quite particular about getting his meals on time. The servants complain about their chores and gossip about their masters. The guards chat about how the bear fights aren't what they used to be, get drunk and chat up barmaids.