tinyE: can't be any worse than the band :P

Dejavous: what's the matter mr Roboto? don't like their hommage to you?

BeatriceElysia: Are RPG a niche games and what are mainstream games?

Breja: As with all games - accessibility, difficulty, general gameplay. Simple rules, action-based combat, open world where you can do anything, that will make a game mainstream-friendly. Old-school type gameplay, complex character stats and progression, slower and more tactical combat - that will make for a niche game.

Getcomposted: Okay, RPG's seem to encompass a lot of types of games right now. Here are a few, not all, of them.

There's the ARPG (Action RPG) where you run around hacking 'n' slashing. With every kill you gain EXP to level up. A good example of this, imo, is Divine Divinity. You get an open world to quest in and the fights are more or less real time. A lot of mouse clicking is needed especially if you venture into an area past your level.

Then there's the dungeon crawler - Legend of Grimrock, Eye of the Beholder for first person views, or the Avernum or Avadon series for a top down or isometric view. These tend to be turn-based with lots of wandering around mapping places. A quarter exploration, a quarter survivalism, a quarter puzzling (because obviously, you need to find the stone idol's ruby eyes to open the door), and a quarter fighting.

The SRPG (Strategy RPG), you command a team of heroes/grunts/ fighters that must defeat a group of enemies. You have to take into account variables like terrain, type of fighter, speed of movement, weaknesses and strengths against various types of enemies. Rock, meet scissors, not paper. These types of games are less open world and more series of battles culminating in a grand style, last gasp hurrah, this is for all the marbles, boss battle. Disgaea, Fire Emblem.

The JRPG (Japanese RPG) with the Final Fantasy series being a rather famous example. Spiky haired pretty boys taking on the ecological monster with improbably gigantic swords. Open worlds, random encounters, some kind of disasters destroying the world in some non-green fashion. An aspect of Japanese life is Shinto, a belief system that everything has an essence from rocks to trees to animals to people. If things are out of balance, bad things happen. Cue spiky haired hero with possible orphan or abandonment issues to come and find his destiny and save the day. Also big eyes.

And then there's the CRPG (Computer RPG) typified in the games of yesteryore like Planescape: Torment or Baldur's Gate. Here I think the genres are a little mixed as they tend to be the progenitor of all the tropes. Squad based, solo characters, they all jump in there. Usually turn-based, the plot lines are more westernized, think Lord of the Rings Big Bads rather than Sephiroth with mother issues. It's not a journey to discover yourself and your destiny, more a discover and investigate danger. Although Planescape: Torment is a discover your identity and purpose, just... not... Japanese. It feels to me like the character takes his amnesia in his stride. Yes, he'd love to find out who he is, but it's not going to stop him kicking ass and chewing bubblegum.

Anyway, my rather sleep deprived ramble on RPG's. There are so many types with so many elements that originate from RPG's spliced in the DNA of all genres of games now, I can't say that RPG's are at all niche. Maybe the very strictest of codifying what a RPG is would make them niche - toss out ARPG's as not being turn-based etc., but essentially, a Role Playing Game is exactly that, a game in which you play a role, and isn't that a description you could apply to most games?

[Edit: typos.]

Getcomposted: There's the ARPG (Action RPG) where you run around hacking 'n' slashing. With every kill you gain EXP to level up. A good example of this, imo, is Divine Divinity. You get an open world to quest in and the fights are more or less real time. A lot of mouse clicking is needed especially if you venture into an area past your level.

Getcomposted: there's the CRPG (Computer RPG) typified in the games of yesteryore like Planescape: Torment or Baldur's Gate. Here I think the genres are a little mixed as they tend to be the progenitor of all the tropes. Squad based, solo characters, they all jump in there. Usually turn-based, the plot lines are more westernized, think Lord of the Rings Big Bads rather than Sephiroth with mother issues. It's not a journey to discover yourself and your destiny, more a discover and investigate danger. Although Planescape: Torment is a discover your identity and purpose, just... not... Japanese. It feels to me like the character takes his amnesia in his stride. Yes, he'd love to find out who he is, but it's not going to stop him kicking ass and chewing bubblegum.

Engerek01: What does niche mean?

teceem: I always considered Divine Divinity to be a "Baldur's Gate clone". Why do you say it's an ARPG, unlike Baldur's Gate? What's so different?

For me, THE example of an ARPG or "hack 'n' slash RPG" is Diablo.

Getcomposted: I define an ARPG as a game whereby you have to fight in real time, and the speed at which you fight is predicated on the speed of your mouse clicks!
So Baldur's Gate's fights from what I can remember are turn-based. The opponent(s) and your character(s) take turn to flail at each other. Once you put your character in fight mode, it will continue to fight independent of your mouse clicks, until you tell it to stop.
Yes, Divine Divinity and Baldur's Gate have similar UI and backgrounds. However if you compare the way the combat feels to games like Diablo or Fate, frenetic and involved as opposed to Baldur's Gate's slightly more cerebral and tabletop D&D combat, then Divine Divinity has more akin to Diablo and Fate. Hence, ARPG, in my opinion.

[Edit: My life is spent correcting typos.]

teceem: I guess we'll agree to disagree. For me, an ARPG means that a large portion of the gameplay is about action/combat, with relatively few or basic other RPG elements, and usually a simple story with little interaction.

Getcomposted: Okay, RPG's seem to encompass a lot of types of games right now. Here are a few, not all, of them.

There's the ARPG (Action RPG) where you run around hacking 'n' slashing. With every kill you gain EXP to level up. A good example of this, imo, is Divine Divinity. You get an open world to quest in and the fights are more or less real time. A lot of mouse clicking is needed especially if you venture into an area past your level.

Then there's the dungeon crawler - Legend of Grimrock, Eye of the Beholder for first person views, or the Avernum or Avadon series for a top down or isometric view. These tend to be turn-based with lots of wandering around mapping places. A quarter exploration, a quarter survivalism, a quarter puzzling (because obviously, you need to find the stone idol's ruby eyes to open the door), and a quarter fighting.

The SRPG (Strategy RPG), you command a team of heroes/grunts/ fighters that must defeat a group of enemies. You have to take into account variables like terrain, type of fighter, speed of movement, weaknesses and strengths against various types of enemies. Rock, meet scissors, not paper. These types of games are less open world and more series of battles culminating in a grand style, last gasp hurrah, this is for all the marbles, boss battle. Disgaea, Fire Emblem.

The JRPG (Japanese RPG) with the Final Fantasy series being a rather famous example. Spiky haired pretty boys taking on the ecological monster with improbably gigantic swords. Open worlds, random encounters, some kind of disasters destroying the world in some non-green fashion. An aspect of Japanese life is Shinto, a belief system that everything has an essence from rocks to trees to animals to people. If things are out of balance, bad things happen. Cue spiky haired hero with possible orphan or abandonment issues to come and find his destiny and save the day. Also big eyes.

And then there's the CRPG (Computer RPG) typified in the games of yesteryore like Planescape: Torment or Baldur's Gate. Here I think the genres are a little mixed as they tend to be the progenitor of all the tropes. Squad based, solo characters, they all jump in there. Usually turn-based, the plot lines are more westernized, think Lord of the Rings Big Bads rather than Sephiroth with mother issues. It's not a journey to discover yourself and your destiny, more a discover and investigate danger. Although Planescape: Torment is a discover your identity and purpose, just... not... Japanese. It feels to me like the character takes his amnesia in his stride. Yes, he'd love to find out who he is, but it's not going to stop him kicking ass and chewing bubblegum.

Anyway, my rather sleep deprived ramble on RPG's. There are so many types with so many elements that originate from RPG's spliced in the DNA of all genres of games now, I can't say that RPG's are at all niche. Maybe the very strictest of codifying what a RPG is would make them niche - toss out ARPG's as not being turn-based etc., but essentially, a Role Playing Game is exactly that, a game in which you play a role, and isn't that a description you could apply to most games?

[Edit: typos.]

Getcomposted: I define an ARPG as a game whereby you have to fight in real time, and the speed at which you fight is predicated on the speed of your mouse clicks!