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ped7g: ... Took you 2+ months to write something, and you (GOG) didn't even bother to read through it, or you don't comprehend English text, or you are insanely ignorant, and trying to aggressively push the PR talk on customers. ...
Marketing speak: saying as little as possible with as many words as possible. But can one really expect more here? GOG is not what is used to be right after they started when they didn't yet had learned marketing speak. If I would get a penny for every time I hear relatively low content phrases like: "...are constantly working on making the experience better...", "...devoted to making it great, so expect improvements...", "...some things will be changed but some will remain as they are...", "...topic will definitely be brought back to the discussion...", "...we’re working on fixing those issues..." I would probably be quite rich.

Not sure where you spotted English language problems? I'm not a native speaker myself and I have a lot of sympathy for imperfect English as long as the meaning is clear. As long as they fix the issues quickly, I don't care if their English is perfect.
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mihuk: ... And why it took you so long to response to the criticism?
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Trilarion: Some possibilities come to mind:...
Fixing is one thing but i'm supprised that it took them 2 months to even comment. I had the filling that they have closed their eyes, coverd their ears and pretended nothing bad happend.
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mihuk: ... Fixing is one thing but i'm supprised that it took them 2 months to even comment. I had the filling that they have closed their eyes, coverd their ears and pretended nothing bad happend.
I guess they were not exactly queuing for who would be allowed to respond, but maybe it's also just the typical development cycle. You plan something, you implement it, you put it live and gather feedback, you process the feedback, you discuss the feedback internally, you eventually come back to the customer. If 10-20 people need to coordinate themselves it takes some time.

Maybe it's also our fault. If two days after the design change we would have started sending impatient requests for change through the contact channels, if the pressure would have risen faster, maybe they had also reacted faster? If we would have immediately said "you change that or we won't buy anything anymore" maybe that would have resulted in a faster fix.

Communication is nice, but ultimately I'm interested in getting it fixed.
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mihuk: ... Fixing is one thing but i'm supprised that it took them 2 months to even comment. I had the filling that they have closed their eyes, coverd their ears and pretended nothing bad happend.
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Trilarion: I guess they were not exactly queuing for who would be allowed to respond, but maybe it's also just the typical development cycle. You plan something, you implement it, you put it live and gather feedback, you process the feedback, you discuss the feedback internally, you eventually come back to the customer. If 10-20 people need to coordinate themselves it takes some time.

Maybe it's also our fault. If two days after the design change we would have started sending impatient requests for change through the contact channels, if the pressure would have risen faster, maybe they had also reacted faster? If we would have immediately said "you change that or we won't buy anything anymore" maybe that would have resulted in a faster fix.

Communication is nice, but ultimately I'm interested in getting it fixed.
Of course fixing beats communicating :) but i think that there are (at least 2) separate people for technical and PR problems.

In my opinion the community was vocal enough but discuraged afer lack of response from GOG.
Post edited December 12, 2018 by mihuk
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mihuk: ...In my opinion the community was vocal enough but discuraged afer lack of response from GOG.
I agree. People got especially discouraged after the lack of a response, but even with the response, people do not seem really satisfied. What can we do? We can observe it a bit more, draw our conclusions and vote with our wallet.
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ped7g: ... Took you 2+ months to write something, and you (GOG) didn't even bother to read through it, or you don't comprehend English text, or you are insanely ignorant, and trying to aggressively push the PR talk on customers. ...
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Trilarion: Marketing speak: saying as little as possible with as many words as possible. But can one really expect more here? GOG is not what is used to be right after they started when they didn't yet had learned marketing speak. If I would get a penny for every time I hear relatively low content phrases like: "...are constantly working on making the experience better...", "...devoted to making it great, so expect improvements...", "...some things will be changed but some will remain as they are...", "...topic will definitely be brought back to the discussion...", "...we’re working on fixing those issues..." I would probably be quite rich.

Not sure where you spotted English language problems? I'm not a native speaker myself and I have a lot of sympathy for imperfect English as long as the meaning is clear. As long as they fix the issues quickly, I don't care if their English is perfect.
That marketing speak would be acceptable as PR-BS would they do it like within week after the feedback started. That would be expected. Doing almost pure PR-BS talk after 2+ months feels insulting.

The "English" was about their ability to comprehend this topic, as it seems they strongly underestimate the issue with the design itself (and I mean mostly the videos, but not only), and went straight "won't change".

Probably good half of this thread (especially if you weight it by the "+") is about "no videos please". One obvious possibility is, that they didn't simply bother to read through thousand (!) comments and just scammed it quickly trying to catch the most repetitive topics, but this thread is actually full of feedback, and takes about days to get through it thoroughly and I can't imagine how you would come with the same response, would they do *that* first. Other explanation is lack of English text comprehension. Maybe they read through it, but didn't understand... Or maybe they even understand, and they somehow expect to push through it. (it may be even valid strategy, if majority of users really don't mind the new design ... I find that extremely difficult to imagine, as checking my orders history, it's quickly dwindling toward zero (initially some inertia and good faith made me to do some more purchases, but recently I check only forum and my library, and when I hit the front page by accident (muscle memory), I hit Ctrl+W instantly when the animated dots appear, announcing incoming youtube video.... I can't bear it, I'm rather getting over of stopping shopping here (which goes surprisingly well, checking my account makes that somewhat satisfactory as I have monthly reports available about my spending per-category, and games-spending now looks really good :) )
Post edited December 12, 2018 by ped7g
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First, want to let you know, if you haven't seen it yet, the list view in the catalog is back. We're just adding some polishing to this option, and fixing the fact that after reload the view gets back to grid view, but other than that you can now browse all games as a list - no autoplay videos, and titles are visible without hovering over tiles.

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lolplatypus: If the feature has been problematic behind the scenes, it is understandable that you're looking for a replacement. Keep in mind, though, that the positive aspects of GOGMixes went beyond games discoverability, but things like the Second Class Customer mix also dealt with some unfortunate shortfalls of GOG, for example patch situation with certain titles. The fact that there is, to my knowledge, no way to check a game's version in the store, doesn't help here.
This is just one example for GOGMixes covering very valuable information that went beyond simple discoverability issues and which would have to be addressed to somewhat restore the appeal that GOGMixes had.

In other words: I appreciate the wish to remedy the lack of mixes, but it needs to be pointed out that something like the Curated Collections would not be a 1:1 replacement.
When it comes to GOGMixes, and especially the one you're mentioning here, I think the revamped reviews could serve as a good place to inform other users if a game lacks a patch/update/feature.

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lolplatypus: That's great to read. Just something I want to point out:
The problem with the news at the bottom is the lack of immediate visibility. News should be something that's digestible at a glance when it comes to the front page. The bottom is bad for this, because it's out of the way. However, since it can be reached with the press of a key, it's not the worst position, either. Ideally don't bury the news somewhere in the middle where we'd be forced to hunt for them with the scroll wheel.
As said before, we have a few ideas on how to change the featuring this section, but we're not ready to discuss that just yet. Will keep you posted.

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lolplatypus: I have to admit I don't get this. It's a problem with data caps, it cannot be avoided while checking a game's title or store page, and it's a mess with keyboard driven browsers. I can understand, if some of these gripes are seen as minor, but what's the point? I just don't understand, what's the upside? You're linking to trailer that's not meant for a thumbnail view. Half the time I can't see shit. This isn't helping anyone. On the contrary: in the two szenarios where these are unavoidable I am either
a) looking at something with a ton of entries made up of different editions or DLC, thus I either already own the game or clearly interested and try to find the proper version, but then get the same tiny trailer (imagine this with Stelaris) half a dozen times while sorting through it.
b) or am about to go to the game's page, where that same trailer is available to me, if I want to watch it.

I get that sometimes you come up with a feature you're really proud of and that becomes an important part of your vision for the project, but there's barely any use of this and most responses in this thread very clearly hate it. I think there was one guy who actually liked it.
It just strikes me as a really strange hill to die on.
We hear you. For now, it won't change, but this one is on our radar for sure.

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BKGaming: And if it seems like I'm being hostile or disrespectful that isn't my intention. I do very much appreciate the communication so thank you for that. But I'm mad about this entire thing, and I'm tired. I've invested a lot in GOG and truly want GOG to succeed, but GOG no longer feels like it appreciates that investment or our business when it disregards our concerns and refuses to bring GOG to 2018 standards in a reasonable time-frame.
I'm not taking this personal, nor I take it as a "hostile or disrespectful" manner. I've been here for long enough to know and appreciate all the things you've done over here. The changes are happening, and maybe not in the timeframe you consider reasonable, but I do hope we can win you back with everything that we have planned for the future.

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HypersomniacLive: Forgive me for being a tad pedantic - this thread was never in need of any reviving; users didn't magically start liking the 'new' GOG, nor stopped discussing the issues. The last post before yours was from yesterday, hardly an indication that the thread was dead as you make it sound.
True, but the posts just before that were from Nov. 28, which makes them on this lively forum a bit outdated.

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HypersomniacLive: Better late than never, I guess.

More than a year ago, GOG had a few users over at their offices in Warsaw. The problematic and mostly lacking communication was one of the topics discussed, and from what those users shared here, GOG seemed interested and prepared to actively work on improving things on this front.
Fast-forward to today, and nothing has changed as here you are apologising and telling us that this post of yours is the first step towards fixing communication. After two months of users commenting and giving feedback on the problems the site revamp introduced. While GOG remained silent.
I'm sorry to say that I don't believe anything will ever change on this front. Experience says that GOG shows up and makes an announcement/statement after the numbers show that its users aren't all talk and no action; in this specific case, I'll go on a limb and say that the previous two big(ger) sales didn't go as hoped/expected, and concern about the next one coming up (Winter sale) going the same way has something to do with the timing and content of this response.
You may think that I'm being unfair and (too) cynical, but this is far from our first rodeo, and so far the score isn't in your favor. So yes, I'm being cynical, and changing my view on this requires quite some hard and consistent work on GOG's part. I may not even be alone in this.
That's fair, and I understand why you're being cynical. I hope we can prove we can do better, and things can change.

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HypersomniacLive: I guess we'll have to wait and see what the part I highlighted entails, but, seeing what sort of changes the anniversary revamp brought, and the recent bug with the nav-bar hiding the settings part of the forum, the initial reaction is feeling some dread.
Some of the changes are happening now (list view) and in the upcoming days, so I'm sure we'll get your feedback on these.
As to the nav-bar bug, what do you have in mind?

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HypersomniacLive: Since it seems that GOG has decided which things will remain as they are, it'd be appreciated if you shared that list with us. I understand that GOG would like to avoid a possible shitstorm at the eves of the big Winter sale, but beating around the bush, after two months of silence, makes this attempt at restoring two-way communication feel less sincere.
There is no list. Things that won't change (and are important by you) were mentioned in my post - support for IE11 and older versions of browsers or bringing back GOGMixes in the old form. As for auto-play, I mentioned that this won't be changed, because currently we're not working on such change. But yes, we do hear you and understand it's one of the biggest issues you have, so it won't be left unnoticed.

EDIT for some typos
Post edited December 12, 2018 by elcook
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lolplatypus: (Regarding autoplay videos)
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elcook: We hear you. For now, it won't change, but this one is on our radar for sure.

[...]

First, want to let you know, if you haven't seen it yet, the list view in the catalog is back. We're just adding some polishing to this option, and fixing the fact that after reload the view gets back to grid view, but other than that you can now browse all games as a list - no autoplay videos, and titles are visible without hovering over tiles.
I just want to mention, thank you guys for bringing list view back. Now idealy there'd be a way to toggle that as default on a per user basis, but even as it is I could absolutely live with that solution re: autoplay videos.
While I can only speak for myself, I think just giving an alternative option is a massive step in the right direction.
Post edited December 12, 2018 by lolplatypus
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elcook: First, want to let you know, if you haven't seen it yet, the list view in the catalog is back. We're just adding some polishing to this option, and fixing the fact that after reload the view gets back to grid view, but other than that you can now browse all games as a list - no autoplay videos, and titles are visible without hovering over tiles.
Looks really great! But on mobile I can only browse the first page, trying to get to the second, or any other other, won't work (clicking buttons or links doesn't have any effect). On both grid and list view. I am not sure if this has been introduced with the update or not. I am using Samsung Internet on Android.

On PC everything's working.
Post edited December 12, 2018 by ConsulCaesar
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elcook: First, want to let you know, if you haven't seen it yet, the list view in the catalog is back. We're just adding some polishing to this option, and fixing the fact that after reload the view gets back to grid view, but other than that you can now browse all games as a list - no autoplay videos, and titles are visible without hovering over tiles.
Two thumbs up!

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elcook: When it comes to GOGMixes, and especially the one you're mentioning here, I think the revamped reviews could serve as a good place to inform other users if a game lacks a patch/update/feature.
I don't know how much are you going to revamp the reviews but I don't think it's a good place for informations about missing patches etc.
How one can find that info quickly among hundreds reviews? How to know who to trust? Who is going to update that information if it gets outdated?
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elcook: First, want to let you know, if you haven't seen it yet, the list view in the catalog is back. We're just adding some polishing to this option, and fixing the fact that after reload the view gets back to grid view, but other than that you can now browse all games as a list - no autoplay videos, and titles are visible without hovering over tiles.
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ConsulCaesar: Looks really great! But on mobile I can only browse the first page, trying to get to the second, or any other other, won't work (clicking buttons or links doesn't have any effect). On both grid and list view. I am not sure if this has been introduced with the update or not. I am using Samsung Internet on Android.

On PC everything's working.
Thanks for reporting. We'll look into it.
As for the ability to set it as default view, we're working on it as I mentioned above.
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elcook:
It would help tremendously if we'd have the option to hide owned games entirely.
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elcook: First, want to let you know, if you haven't seen it yet, the list view in the catalog is back. We're just adding some polishing to this option, and fixing the fact that after reload the view gets back to grid view, but other than that you can now browse all games as a list - no autoplay videos, and titles are visible without hovering over tiles.
Still can't see it either way so good for others I guess...

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elcook: When it comes to GOGMixes, and especially the one you're mentioning here, I think the revamped reviews could serve as a good place to inform other users if a game lacks a patch/update/feature.
Not in one place, not immediately visible on game page, and definitely no way to keep it updated. The reviews would at most indicate the game's status at the time of writing, and as soon as a new patch appears elsewhere and not here or a missing one finally finds its way here they'll be outdated. Plus, you'd need to look through all to even find one, if it exists, with that information at a certain point in time. There's absolutely no way that can replace that particular mix in any way. And that's just for a single mix.

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elcook: True, but the posts just before that were from Nov. 28, which makes them on this lively forum a bit outdated.
People do get a bit tired of just talking to walls. Rather the point of you ignoring complaints, after all.

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elcook: That's fair, and I understand why you're being cynical. I hope we can prove we can do better, and things can change.
Oh, they change all right. Just not for the better.

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elcook: Some of the changes are happening now (list view) and in the upcoming days, so I'm sure we'll get your feedback on these.
As to the nav-bar bug, what do you have in mind?
Not sure if HypersomniacLive's thinking the same, but for me that indicated work done on the forums too, which likely means bringing them in line with the rest of the site, as in just as crappy and unusable (for me in particular completely so, not functional at all).
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elcook: When it comes to GOGMixes, and especially the one you're mentioning here, I think the revamped reviews could serve as a good place to inform other users if a game lacks a patch/update/feature.
No, not really. Some games have hundreds of reviews. Do you really expect users to read everyone of them to find out about such stuff? And with the inability to edit reviews, it wouldn't even make sense. Take the "Games that treat GOG customers as second class citizens" mix for example. Shall people write a new review everytime a game isn't patched or missing some features? And how should other people know, if these "reviews" are still true one week, one month or one year later?

Edit: Fixed a typo.
Post edited December 13, 2018 by PaterAlf
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elcook: Things that won't change (and are important by you) were mentioned in my post - support for IE11 and older versions of browsers
Guess what. I have a good old version of Firefox in my good old PC where I play good old games. *GASP* What a shock, uh?

P.S.
Give us back manual sorting.
Post edited December 12, 2018 by Fuz