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high rated
I'm going to hope we all stay civil, here, but I'll also note this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Your entire question is a well-known fallacy. Do you play video games? Yes? Then you're a gamer.
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TheEnigmaticT: I'm going to hope we all stay civil, here
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TheJoe: How come you've only just become concerned about civility when this thread was opened two days ago?
Because, in truth, the thread's pretty civil. The OP says some rather short-sighted stuff about how women are stupid because they don't exist solely for his gratification; the replies he got ranged from the scatological to the actually helpful, but I think given the nature of the original, poorly-conceived post, it's actually progressed in a very well-behaved fashion.
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Immoli: I didn't just move the "real" part out. If she played 50 games a year, sure she'd be a gamer. Assuming they weren't like, 1 minute long games.
Hell, if they were average length games and she played 10 she'd be a gamer.
I find that a bit problematic; in the last year I doubt I've spent over 80 hours playing video games;I certainly haven't completed more than two.

I consider myself a gamer, nonetheless, although the fact that I have a job, travel a lot, and work a lot means I don't play games like I used to in school. You may choose not to think I'm a "gamer" by your definition, but given that I'm quite well-read on the medium, that I have played a heck of a lot of games in my time, and that I work in the industry, I'd say I am.

Oddly enough, that definition seems to fit Anita as well. I bet she's played at least as many games as I have this year, and she's clearly well read about games, even if she's got mostly "book learning" instead of actual, practical learning about them. I'd note that her particular view of feminism means that most games that she sees she doesn't enjoy--simply because she finds them very poorly representative of her gender. If most games depicted men being represented in a way that you felt was shallow and degrading, you'd probably find a different hobby, too.
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Immoli: But that doesn't really fit here. Someone who watches a movie maybe once every two months or so wouldn't be a moviebuff. Nor would someone who reads a book a year be a bookworm.

In the same way, if someone only played some phone games while on the toilet or something, they wouldn't be a gamer.
I disagree; I think anyone who self-identifies as a geek or a gamer should, by the fact, be considered "one of us". What do we get out of telling people that they aren't pure enough or geeky enough to really belong to our particular subculture? I get that people don't like having someone look around and say, "Man, there are a lot of parts of this hobby that could really be more inclusive." Being told that your hobby treats 51% of the world's population poorly isn't something that's fun to hear. You want to think that the person who's saying this simply doesn't get gaming culture well enough to know the truth of the matter--whatever we think that truth may be.

Does gaming treat women poorly? Well, that's a discussion worth having. But I think that telling someone that "you aren't a hardcore enough gamer to weigh in on this" is exclusionist rubbish. Let them have their opinion. Develop your own. From thesis and antithesis, develop a healthy synthesis of ideas. That's how discussion, how cognition, and how creation progress in helpful and innovative ways.
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TheEnigmaticT: I disagree; I think anyone who self-identifies as a geek or a gamer should, by the fact, be considered "one of us".
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Immoli: Well then. I'm going to self-identify as a Olympic champion. And now, I am a Olympic champion. Feels good.
Your argument is bad and you should feel bad. Geek isn't a thing you earn. Being an Olympic champion is.

Geek is a social construct: if you play games and think you're a geek, you should be welcomed into our little club. If you read Neil Gaiman and you think you're a geek, you should be welcomed into our little club. If you watched all the Marvel movies and think that makes you a geek, you know what? You should be welcomed into our club.

I don't see what the hell benefit it brings us if, when someone says, "I really liked watching Thor!" an elder geek sets out pointing out every way the movie is wrong and stupid and--by extension--that person is wrong and stupid. Why do we want to keep people out of the "geek club"? Geeks are the freaks, the outcasts, the people who didn't belong elsewhere: why can't we be willing to add another to our ranks instead of say, "No. You aren't geeky enough. Get out."

To hell with that mentality, man. Is Anita a gamer? Sure, if she wants to be. Hell, it's better if she thinks that she's a gamer, because then she's one of us trying to change something that she perceives as bad about her hobby. If she's not a gamer, then it's like when you hear Congress saying that GTA V is what caused that crazy person to shoot up a nunnery (or whatever)--it's someone with power and authority who has no clue what's going on and is still trying to change things. If Anita's not a gamer, then in the name of all that's holy we should be doing what we can to get her numbered amongst our ranks, because that's the surest way to have her look on this hobby with a favorable eye. You can't deny that Anita has power--I don't think anyone does--so at this point you can either go out of your way to alienate the powerful, or you can try to show them, "Hey, things are that bad. Look around and see."

So far, if I was Anita I wouldn't necessarily have concluded that games are misogynist, but it's pretty obvious that a hell of a lot of people who play games are.
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Immoli: Well then. I'm going to self-identify as a Olympic champion. And now, I am a Olympic champion. Feels good.
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monkeydelarge: Be careful. He is a blue...
You can't honestly tell me that you think I'm gonna mod someone just because he doesn't agree with me.

If that was the case I would have deleted this entire thread once you posted it, dude.
Post edited October 31, 2013 by TheEnigmaticT
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TheEnigmaticT: Being told that your hobby treats 51% of the world's population poorly isn't something that's fun to hear.
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Namur: I know nothing about any of them so i'll have to trust your word, the DD platform you work for released 6 video games this week, how many of them treat 51% of the world population poorly ?
Couldn't say. That's also not my argument.

My argument is if someone says, "That thing you love is hurtful to me!" the first response is to say, "shut up. No it's not."

Is gaming misogynistic? Sometimes, certainly. Is it worth talking about? Absolutely. Is it worth getting ragey ranty over? Probably not.


EDIT: DAMN YOU AUTOCORRECT!
Post edited October 31, 2013 by TheEnigmaticT
I'm off doing the Polish version of Trick-or-Treating (which, as far as I can tell, is mostly sitting and drinking. :P)

I trust you'll all be civil enough while I'm away.
Just a remainder for you, guys, to act maturely and refrain from name-calling. I don't care about any of your opinions as long as they are civil, calling anyone a "bitch" is not, dear hedwards. Please note I have an eye on all of you and continue the debate in refined manner.
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Sstefania: Just a remainder for you, guys, to act maturely and refrain from name-calling. I don't care about any of your opinions as long as they are civil, calling anyone a "bitch" is not, dear hedwards. Please note I have an eye on all of you and continue the debate in refined manner.
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keeveek: I wonder if you'd react if someone was called a dick in some other threads. Somehow, I am almost certain you wouldn't.

but that's beyond the point, nvm.
If you see someone calling someone else a dick or an asshole (again, like "asshole whiteknights" in this thread) please report it, I can't possibly monitor every single thread, but this is not right, too. "Bitch" was just the most outstanding example so I might have not made myself perfectly clear.